A NEW DIRECTION FOR THE OLD RAM

[Mike CHS]

I saw that when I was in New Zealand. They set out poison but they try to maximize the fox kill and not the non-target animals.

 

[greybeard]

Alfalfa hay is getting really hard to source so this week we purchased 8x4x3 bales with a fair amount of clover in it,weighted 550 kgs and cost $320.00

550 kg=1212lbs.
320 Australian Dollar equals
233.70 United States Dollar
Is that kind of hay always that expensive for that weight or is it because of the drought?

 

[Latestarter]

I thought you folks over there had a rabbit and mice problem... wouldn't the foxes help to keep them in check? Or do they prefer newborn lambs?

 

[The Old Ram-Australia]

G'day,L S if you think like a fox, which would attract you the most, a nice warm meal tucked under a tussock of grass or an exhausting gallop through brush and fallen timber with no guarantee of success?

In answer to your question GB,in normal times you would be able to purchase this type of hay for around $180.00 per bale and Alfalfa for about $250.00 from local sources but this dry has been going on now for so long (in QLD some parts have not had decent rain for over 5 years),for us locally its been about 18 months.The lack of supply always creates a premium add to that it has to be hauled in some cases for over 1000 kms and pass through maybe two more hands before it reaches the farm gives you some idea of the increased costs ,but farmers have "no option" but to pay if they are to hold onto genetic material with generations of breeding behind them.

B M.1080 is highly effective in fox control,but "kills " domestic dogs if they come in contact with it.I am required "by law" to notify every neighbor within 2 kms of our place and all entry gates have to be signposted at least 24 hrs in advance of baits being laid.It has been shown that a fox will travel 7 kms to take lambs and if it happens to take a bait it will usually "die in its den".

The govt is now contemplating shipping wheat for stock-feed from the west coast of Western Australia by "sea" to supply livestock on the East coast of Queensland(take a second to examine a map and it will give you some idea of the scale of the problem).You frequently hear farmers say "It will rain again and every day is one day closer"...T.O.R.

 

[Baymule]

Do sheep farmers in Australia employ the use of livestock guard dogs like we do here in the US? I am speaking with no experience of the huge flocks that are run out west, but of my own limited experience on my small acreage. We are over run with coyotes, without our LGDs we would have no sheep.

 

[greybeard]

Do sheep farmers in Australia employ the use of livestock guard dogs like we do here in the US? I am speaking with no experience of the huge flocks that are run out west, but of my own limited experience on my small acreage. We are over run with coyotes, without our LGDs we would have no sheep.

I can't speak for Australia, but on the big cattle/sheep/goat ranches out in west and south Texas, the answer is 'very very rarely', and in fact, of all the 100s of ranchers and farmers I have met, worked with or for over my lifetime, exactly 1 had a 'dedicated' LGD, and that was this year and he is a BYH member.
by 'dedicated' I mean of the usual breeds, acquired mainly for lgd use and trained for that purpose.

 

[The Old Ram-Australia]

G'day you make an interesting observation B M and G B's apply to down here as well .Almost 40 years ago we were "breeding" Maremma Dogs but generally speaking the people who purchased them for "goats" and the property's were "closer in" rather than the big runs out West.At that time almost half of our pups were purchased poultry whose owners had very expensive or "rare breeds".

To understand anything which is introduced I always look to the past and where they evolved and what type of management came with their use.The LGB's in almost every country were bred by "shepherds" who roamed the wild hill country of their birth and to my mind this is how they should be used in any new environment.I can't see a really successful outcome if after introduction to their charges you put them out in a paddock of 1000 acs visit them once a week with some feed .The dogs developed with human company and like all dogs their only wish is to please and be praised by their master...T.O.R.

 

[Baymule]

Our two Great Pyrenees are valued members of the family. They both patrol our little farm, barking to warn predators away. The female, Paris is a killer of anything and everything that makes the mistake of venturing into her space. Last week she killed a copperhead snake, shaking it in two pieces. This week the male, Trip got bit by a copperhead, he "told" me the next morning and spent a couple of days laid in the floor. Now that he knows what copperheads are about, I'll bet he is more cautious.

 

[greybeard]

G'day you make an interesting observation B M and G B's apply to down here as well .Almost 40 years ago we were "breeding" Maremma Dogs but generally speaking the people who purchased them for "goats" and the property's were "closer in" rather than the big runs out West.At that time almost half of our pups were purchased poultry whose owners had very expensive or "rare breeds".

To understand anything which is introduced I always look to the past and where they evolved and what type of management came with their use.The LGB's in almost every country were bred by "shepherds" who roamed the wild hill country of their birth and to my mind this is how they should be used in any new environment.I can't see a really successful outcome if after introduction to their charges you put them out in a paddock of 1000 acs visit them once a week with some feed .The dogs developed with human company and like all dogs their only wish is to please and be praised by their master...T.O.R.

When I 1st came to BYH, I started seeing the LGD references and thought"WTH are they going on about?" but soon came to realize it's mostly a small acreage/hobby farm phenomenon that doesn't carry over to larger tracts. I knew my sister has chickens, b-i-l has had various poultry over the decades and now has hair sheep, have a niece that raises show rabbits and was into geese and guineas and nearest neighbor has a big variety of farm animals, are as close to true self sufficiency as anyone I ever met & they don't and never have had an lgd and I never met anyone here in Texas or anywhere else that had one until I was visited by a BYH member earlier in the year.

One of those 'economy of scale' things that doesn't carry over well from small to large operations I suppose, and I suspect it may also make a difference if one views their livestock as income producers/food source vs pets. I know it don't bother sister one bit to grab one out of the pen & wring a chicken or rooster's neck.

Here at BYH, it also seems to be somewhat of a cultural 'fitting in' thing. I often see someone just join, say what animals they have or plan to have and within a few posts, someone will say "Oh, You'll have to get you an LGD!!" when the new member hasn't even got an animal yet or built a stick of fence.

 

[Latestarter]

When I lived in CO, and even before I moved there, I went there every year, I spent a lot of time in the mountains, not just during hunting season. There were sheep leases in many places in national forest and BLM land and the sheep would be up at altitude during the summer. Many times I passed herds being moved along roads from one area to another, accompanied by LGDs. This wasn't a small number but in the many hundreds of animals. I've also seen many herds in pastures with dogs present. There is at least one rancher that moves cattle around here in TX near me that had an LGD in the pasture with his cows. I only saw the dog with the cattle back when they were calving and haven't seen the dog since, but that doesn't mean the dog wasn't/isn't there...

Might not be a "thing" here in TX, but they are used in other places by large sheep farmers. I mean LGDs have been used for centuries. They have been bred to the task for centuries. I don't think it's just a BYH/hobby farmer thing. It's only in the past few decades that LGD breeds have become all the rage for non farmers who try to make them into pets... status symbol animals... or "big, bad, family guard dogs"... I've seen coyotes in my back pasture, multiple times, at many times during the day. I would have to guess they have also been there during the night. But I haven't lost a single goat to one. I suppose I could bring Mel back in the house full time and see what happens, but I think I'd prefer to leave him out there to deter the coyotes from jumping inside the goat's pasture fence for a meal.