Animal choice for naturally raised meats

[Straw Hat Kikos]

Simply cows were not designed to eat corn. Strictly grass/pasture fed...NO CORN, GRAIN...That is the short answer but before anyone gets carried away and all offended the main question I have is....

I have heard that IF a cow has NOT been grass fed, but grain fed, it can take many generations for the offspring to be fully pasture raised. Hope I sated that correctly. Is this true?

BTW- These cows would be strictly for my food purposes not a"profitable" venture.

I have heard that just one generation of corn/grain fed cattle will take you four generations to get it back to grass fed only.

 

[OneFineAcre]

Simply cows were not designed to eat corn. Strictly grass/pasture fed...NO CORN, GRAIN...That is the short answer but before anyone gets carried away and all offended the main question I have is....

I have heard that IF a cow has NOT been grass fed, but grain fed, it can take many generations for the offspring to be fully pasture raised. Hope I sated that correctly. Is this true?

BTW- These cows would be strictly for my food purposes not a"profitable" venture.

I'm not going to get offended. I like you I've traded a couple of PM's with your partner. You need to come to the NCDGBA meeting in Pittsboro on Jan. 13th. Bring a covered dish.

I've eaten grass fed beef. Don't much care for the taste. To me it's kind of gamey at least the fat tastes bad to me. You just can't get the marbling that you get with grain fed.

Now, I don't know much about raising cattle. My wife's folks have 76 (mostly angus mix).

However, my wife has a degree in animal science from N.C. State. Worked at the dairy there on a commercial sow farm and at the swine education unit at State. She disagrees with your notion that cows are not designed to eat grains. Should no ruminant eat grain?

Cow's are herbivores. They are designed to eat vegetation including seeds Corn is a seed, soybeans are seeds. What they are not designed to eat is bonemeal, fishmeal, or meatmeal.

The grass fed beef movement is not based on science. It's a movement based on a negative response to factory farming.

A lot of what you buy as grass fed beef that taste's OK, isn't 100% grass fed. They are fed silage or a alfalfa haylage (not sure if that's spelled right) that has corn mixed in. Just like a lot of what is classified as free range chicken, isn't really free range. They just open the door to the poultry house and have a fenced in area outside. The thing is those Cornish rock monstrosities will not let the feeder out of there sight and don't even go outside. But, the government says it's ok to call them free range

Just like the earlier poster who said since all the restaraunts sell angus it must be the best. That's called marketing my friend

 

[SheepGirl]

I'm not going to get offended. I like you I've traded a couple of PM's with your partner. You need to come to the NCDGBA meeting in Pittsboro on Jan. 13th. Bring a covered dish.

I've eaten grass fed beef. Don't much care for the taste. To me it's kind of gamey at least the fat tastes bad to me. You just can't get the marbling that you get with grain fed.

Now, I don't know much about raising cattle. My wife's folks have 76 (mostly angus mix).

However, my wife has a degree in animal science from N.C. State. Worked at the dairy there on a commercial sow farm and at the swine education unit at State. She disagrees with your notion that cows are not designed to eat grains. Should no ruminant eat grain?

Cow's are herbivores. They are designed to eat seeds. Corn is a seed, soybeans are seeds. What they are not designed to eat is bonemeal, fishmeal, or meatmeal.

The grass fed beef movement is not based on science. It's a movement based on a negative response to factory farming.

 

[bonbean01]

I grew up on a grain/beef farm...in Canada...for the USA market, they were fed grains for finishing as the USA likes a marbled fat in their beef. For our own personal beef, they were grass fed.

 

[greybeard]

.

I have heard that IF a cow has NOT been grass fed, but grain fed, it can take many generations for the offspring to be fully pasture raised. Hope I sated that correctly. Is this true?

Not sure what you are asking or saying when you say "many".
A generation is: a bred cow carries to term and has a calf (or twin calves)=that newborn, is the 1st generation offspring. When that 1 gen offspring matures to breeding, is bred and calves, her calf is the 2nd generation offspring. When the 2nd calve matures, is bred, and calves, you now have the 3rd generation. If everything went perfect, that's about 4 years--assuming they were all females of course, and all bred back and settled in a timely manner after calving. (I'm not counting the original bred momma cow)

You can easily raise a calf to butcher weight in a whole lot less time than that and finished on grass--PROVIDING, the grass is good quality hi protien, high energy forage, no drought, good genetics, no parasite problems etc etc. Of all those variables, genetics counts the most. You can't feed your way out of poor genetics--no way--no how!! It ain't gonna happen. Crap in--crap out.

In the old days, it did indeed take several years to raise calves and steers to market weight, but that was a case of the poor genetics being used at the time.

Royd--you provide no supplement--no mineral--no lick tubs in winter--nothing but forage and hay?

 

[greybeard]

Simply cows were not designed to eat corn. Strictly grass/pasture fed...NO CORN, GRAIN...That is the short answer but before anyone gets carried away and all offended the main question I have is....

I have heard that IF a cow has NOT been grass fed, but grain fed, it can take many generations for the offspring to be fully pasture raised. Hope I sated that correctly. Is this true?

BTW- These cows would be strictly for my food purposes not a"profitable" venture.

I have heard that just one generation of corn/grain fed cattle will take you four generations to get it back to grass fed only.

Generations? Read my other post. Your parents are 1 generation. You are the next. Your children are a 3rd generation. Your grandkids are yet the next.
If you have a study or proof that it takes 4 generations to get back to "grass fed" I'd love to read it.
On the interent?
That's the problem with the internet. "If it's on the internet--it must be true"--before that, it was some of the more sleazy periodicals and newpapers.
You can take a feeder calf right off grain, put him on grass (and vice versa) and IF the genetics were there to begin with and IF the protien and other nutrients are there, there will be no problems whatsoever, and the transition from one feed type to the other will have very very little effect on quality or taste for even that animal--certainly not the next 3 generations. In late 2011 millions of head of grass only fed cattle had to go onto supplemental feeding problems due to drought conditions. Spring comes, they're right back on grass only and marketed with no one ever being able to know the difference in taste, marbeling, fat or anything else. If anything,the supplemental feeding increaed the marbeling #s.
And, What an animal (or human) is fed never, ever, ever affects the genetics.

 

[Southern by choice]

@greybeard- I am fully aware of what a generation is. I am also aware of genetics, parasite issues etc.

I am amazed at the push for how grain fed vs grass fed is better. I stated a specific question. This is a matter of either you know the answer or you don't.

This section is under HERDS GENERAL- subtopic-NATURAL and ORGANIC HUSBANDRY The original poster has titled his topic as ANIMAL CHOICE FOR NATURALLY RAISED MEATS.

I have heard different thoughts on grass fed cattle vs. grain fed cattle and thought you may have some real answers.
I have heard that IF a cow has NOT been grass fed, but grain fed, it can take many generations for the offspring to be fully pasture raised. Hope I sated that correctly. Is this true?
If it is then I would need to search for strictly pasture raised cattle to begin with right?

I am restating the one portion of my post so that perhaps those reading may understand this better. Perhaps the first part of the statement was misunderstood. The statement was directly related to the question that follows. NOT about the methods of grass or grain feeding.

I am not interested in any ideas that are not natural/organic methods. I am aware of the methods commonly used in the raising of meat animals. I am strictly interested in grass fed..pasture raised animals. I also am not criticizing those who have a different view or have chosen a method. I am not concerned at how fast an animal can get to slaughter weight.

Grass fed is not a new "movement"... Been around for thousands of years.

 

[Southern by choice]

And, What an animal (or human) is fed never, ever, ever affects the genetics.

Are you serious.

 

[Straw Hat Kikos]

Ok Mr. Expert.

We read this (you telling us off) on the internet so it's true because one guy has an opinion on the matter and won't let others share theirs or say anything.

I am going to leave this thread and not say anything for fear of what might happen to me. But I do have to say that I think you are being ridiculous and are not listening to anyone. Also because you raise cattle you think you know everything about them and more, something I think we all hate.

I think that Southern was asking Royd something, then asked a question to him and then I said that I had heard something close to what she said. We end up getting attacked. That's fine with me and I'm leaving this thread because I don't see this ending well. Hopefully Royd (someone who's ideas and opinions I respect because I respect what he does and the way he treats others) will chime in and either tell us that we are way wrong and off or actually have something there.

btw I had heard it NOT on the internet but from someone from NC Sate University. Soooo yeaaahhhhh

 

[greybeard]

Of that animal? Yes I am serious. The genetics are decided extemely early in uterous. The chromosome pairs are set long before birth and it is impossible outside of genetic engineering at the cell level to ever change those genetics--and neither we nor nature does genetic engineering on live things--outside of stem cell research. It's only during the reproductive period that genetics change. Your genes, and mine, are the very same at the time of our death as they were at the moment of our birth, regardless of what we ingest. (edit) The ingestion of radionuculides perhaps being the exception--tho I thnk they simply cause individual cell changes (cancer) but not the type genetic changes that are being discussed)
And, ever hear of any prospective parent who changed their offspring's hair or eye color by changing their own diet? Their gender? No, of course not because it isn't possible. That's all decided by genetic makeup alone.
Anyone who has told you different is simply mis-informed.

I have heard that IF a cow has NOT been grass fed, but grain fed, it can take many generations for the offspring to be fully pasture raised. Hope I sated that correctly. Is this true?

What does "fully pasture raised" mean?

Do you mean "It takes several generations of breeding to produce an offspring that qualifies as grass fed due to the fact that one or more of it's parents or grandparents ingested grain"?