Animal choice for naturally raised meats

[greybeard]

Ok Mr. Expert.

We read this (you telling us off) on the internet so it's true because one guy has an opinion on the matter and won't let others share theirs or say anything.

I am going to leave this thread and not say anything for fear of what might happen to me. But I do have to say that I think you are being ridiculous and are not listening to anyone. Also because you raise cattle you think you know everything about them and more, something I think we all hate.

I think that Southern was asking Royd something, then asked a question to him and then I said that I had heard something close to what she said. We end up getting attacked. That's fine with me and I'm leaving this thread because I don't see this ending well. Hopefully Royd (someone who's ideas and opinions I respect because I respect what he does and the way he treats others) will chime in and either tell us that we are way wrong and off or actually have something there.

btw I had heard it NOT on the internet but from someone from NC Sate University. Soooo yeaaahhhhh

That is not my intention at all and I have absolutely nothing against grass fed beef. My own cattle are grass fed almost exclusively except in extreme weather conditions like last summer's drought. I do not finish on grain either, as I see no need to.

If you would PM me the UNC article link, I would indeed love to read what they had to say.
I have attacked no one, but I would like to know more about this "several generations/many generations" thing because to be honest, I've never heard of it.

 

[greybeard]

Now my question is, why would you want beef that was strictly pasture fed and not fed grain?

It's a matter of personal taste. Most grocery store and restaurant steak for instance is grain finished. I can tell the difference in that, and beef that was fed strictly on grass/hay forages. It's a more "pronounced" taste is the only way I can describe it. Much like the difference in store bought tomatoes and heirloom tomatoes grown at home. Both are good--they are just different from each other.
AFAIK, I have never eaten any beef that was raised on a strictly grain diet, unless it was the high $$ steak I had in Japan many years ago. .

 

[greybeard]

Here are the standards set by the American Grassfed Association for qualifications regarding individual animal and traceback. As you can see they say nothing about an animals progeny or it's forebearers. Certainly don't go back generations.


The AGA states only, that for the individual lifetime of any animal it must be on grass their entire lives and the track back clause also limits that standard to that only that one generation. The only caveat was that each farm or ranch must meet these standards for 8 of any 10 years or lose it's certification until which time they can prove that each individual animal has met all regulations (fed grass from birth to harvest). The reason they allow the 2 year variance is they understand there will be some years that a farm simply cannot meet every standard, such as drought stricken years. If a Grassfed farm is found to be in violation for 3 years, it is dropped to Grass Finished status. If a Grass Finished farm fails to meet standards it loses all certification until it can again show it's animals meet the standards from birth to harvest. There is NO traceback beyond birth. The AGFA is the gold standard for what is grasfed and what is not in the USA. Canada may differ.

American Grassfed Association- Grassfed and Pasture Finished Ruminant Standards

3.1 Forage Protocol
3.1.1
All livestock production must be pasture/grass/forage based.
3.1.2
Grass and forage, shall be the feed source consumed for the lifetime of the ruminant animal, with
the exception of milk consumed prior to weaning. The diet shall be derived solely from forage
consisting of grass (annual and perennial), forbs (e.g. Legumes, Brassicas), browse, or cereal
grain crops in the vegetative (pre-grain) state.
3.1.3
Approved supplements may be fed as outlined in section 3.3.
3.1.4
Animals cannot be fed grain.
3.1.5
Animals must have continuous access to pasture and forage appropriate to the species.
3.1.6
Forage is defined as any herbaceous plant material that can be grazed or harvested for feeding,
with the exception of grain.
3.2 Grazing, Confinement and Stock Piled Forages
3.2.1
All AGA grassfed, pasture finished and dairy animals must be maintained at all times on range

AGA Grassfed and pasture finished animals must be traceable by written record throughout their
entire lives, from birth to harvest- to the farm or ranch from which they originated.
3.6.2
Each producer must develop and maintain an animal identification system to uniquely identify each
animal or batch of animals.
3.6.3
Complete and up to date records must be maintained and specifically identify all animals raised
and purchased that are sold, harvested, or used for milk production as part of the AGA Grassfed
program.
3.6.4
Complete and up to date records must be maintained to show the source of all purchased market
and dairy animals brought onto the farm or ranch.
3.6.5
Records must document that the supplier of the purchased market and/or dairy animals raised
them in accordance with AGA Grassfed or Pasture Finished Ruminant Standards.
3.6.6
Only market animals one year of age or younger may be brought into the AGA Certified Grassfed
program by affidavit.
Note: AGA Grassfed Supplier Affidavit, Appendix A, must be used for purchased animals after
January 1, 2010. All market animals brought onto a farm or ranch for the AGA Certified Grassfed
Program must come from audited suppliers beginning Jan 1 2012.

This is a lengthy read in PDF form and quite informative.
The banned feeds were about what I thought they would be, but the allowed supplements included things I did not think would be allowed. Corncobs are allowed.

http://www.americangrassfed.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/AGA-Grassfed-Standards-Fall-2011.pdf

 

[Cricket]

I am going to leave this thread and not say anything

Aaaaand that's how it's done

I would think that the 'drawback' would be that the Galloway mature more slowly? I don't know how much that matters to the person raising beef for themselves. We make our own hay and are happy just knowing we've had happy cows that taste good. If it takes a couple of months longer? From what I gather, one of the genetic plusses is that they put their fat into marbling and don't carry it on the outside of their carcass where it would end up as waste. I am going to get one. Someday!

 

[OneFineAcre]

@greybeard- I am fully aware of what a generation is. I am also aware of genetics, parasite issues etc.

I am amazed at the push for how grain fed vs grass fed is better. I stated a specific question. This is a matter of either you know the answer or you don't.

This section is under HERDS GENERAL- subtopic-NATURAL and ORGANIC HUSBANDRY The original poster has titled his topic as ANIMAL CHOICE FOR NATURALLY RAISED MEATS.

I have heard different thoughts on grass fed cattle vs. grain fed cattle and thought you may have some real answers.
I have heard that IF a cow has NOT been grass fed, but grain fed, it can take many generations for the offspring to be fully pasture raised. Hope I sated that correctly. Is this true?
If it is then I would need to search for strictly pasture raised cattle to begin with right?

I am restating the one portion of my post so that perhaps those reading may understand this better. Perhaps the first part of the statement was misunderstood. The statement was directly related to the question that follows. NOT about the methods of grass or grain feeding.

I am not interested in any ideas that are not natural/organic methods. I am aware of the methods commonly used in the raising of meat animals. I am strictly interested in grass fed..pasture raised animals. I also am not criticizing those who have a different view or have chosen a method. I am not concerned at how fast an animal can get to slaughter weight.

Grass fed is not a new "movement"... Been around for thousands of years.

Understood my friend, understood. I too shall drop off of this thread
It was funny though when my daughter said, "you know the steers are dead now, right?"

 

[Southern by choice]

Kids (the human kind) are awesome! Yours sounds like a smart/sensible one at that...aren't you glad it wasn't wah wah wah...the cow is dead wah wah wah!

 

[PotterWatch]

If we ever manage to move to a larger place and raise more beef on our own land, I would live to look into Galloways. As we stand right now, we have a few red angus here on our farm and the rest of our beef is raised strictly on pasture by another local farmer. No grain is ever fed to them and they are delicious! I find grain-fed beef to be rather tasteless after eating grass-fed for the past year.

Are cows meant to eat grain? Sure they will naturally eat grain but certainly not anywhere near the amounts they are fed when raised or finished on grains. What they naturally eat the most is, of course, grass.

 

[Royd Wood]

For a strictly grassfed beef operation then look no further than Galloway cattle

I have heard that IF a cow has NOT been grass fed, but grain fed, it can take many generations for the offspring to be fully pasture raised. Hope I sated that correctly. Is this true?
I have heard this too but I think its more to do with the individual animal and breed

If it is then I would need to search for strictly pasture raised cattle to begin with right?
To a certain degree yes as you get a real chance to see how they stand up to just a grass / hay diet


Do certain breeds of cattle do better than others as far as pasture raised only?
Yes they do but the secret is to have at all times really good pasture and in winter you need top quality hay so I'm having a tough time this year what with the drought and lack of good hay

...and yes, I understand what you breed and that you are passionate about promoting that breed. I also believe that people are passionate because they really get to see that breed first hand pos/neg traits together. So I really am looking at a more overall picture.
Not just a single breed.

Yes I am passionate about Galloways but did the rounds looking at other breeds before I bought my first, its good to do that and you should write out a checklist to see which breed ticks all the boxes

 

[Southern by choice]

Thanks Royd.

 

[Royd Wood]

I am going to leave this thread and not say anything

Aaaaand that's how it's done

I would think that the 'drawback' would be that the Galloway mature more slowly?
Not quite true "any beef breed mature more slowly on a strict grass / hay diet, a grain fed Galloway will grow as fast as most other breeds

From what I gather, one of the genetic plusses is that they put their fat into marbling and don't carry it on the outside of their carcass where it would end up as waste.

True -The Galloway and Highland have a double layer of hair, an insulation layer and a long hair layer to keep the rain out. This saves them having to make that outside layer of fat that other breeds have to do to keep warm in winter.