Buckling Issues *Pics Page 2*

[aggieterpkatie]

Yep, I worked at the University of MD farm and we had 2 cows with cannulas. We were in charge of handling the cows for the labs and stuff (student labs). They're pretty neat. The cows were retired dairy girls and they lived a great life. I also worked at a large dairy in MD that had a fistulated cow in the milking string. They used her a lot when they had cows go down or their rumens would need jump-starting.

 

[()relics]

I recall when I was in school, there was a cow that had a rumen fistula. It was fun to look into the rumen to see the food that the cow had eaten being digested....I don't think the cow enjoyed it though. It was a chronic bloater and had the surgery "to futher the study of an active rumen"...It never really grew or gained any weight, it just kind of stayed around as a living science experiment that would ocasionally be wheeled out for some "new test"...It died when I was a senior...they took the fistula assembly out, it had a plate glass viewing window, and that was the end of that. It probably still sits in some laboratory today, the assembly that is.

Most Ag colleges have "cows with windows". I know Kentucky State and University of Idaho do, I have seen them. It is pretty standard for studying cow digestion.

And yes, it is COOL!

...but when I was in school it was considered almost unheard of and very experimental. IA st. 198...let say late 80's

 

[ksalvagno]

Ohio State has a cow like that too. Many an alpaca has been saved from getting rumen juice from that cow.

 

[cmjust0]

Well, y'all clearly have quite a bit more experience with this than I do...I'd never heard of a vagal indigestion -- let alone a rumen fistula -- before this morning. This is all new territory to me, so I'm just kinda using the power of logic and reasoning to try and figure it out...definitely not experience!

With that in mind, it simply occurred to me that if he's just got gas in there -- not trapped frothy gas, but just a big pocket of gas -- then he should very simply burp it out. That's what they do.. So, working under the assumption that it was just a big free-gas pocket, I made the logical jump that he must not be burping, else he wouldn't have that big gas pocket, right?...so then I gotta go try to figure out how to tell google that I want to know why a goat can't burp..

That's not easy, btw..

And that's how I landed on type I vagal indigestion, resulting from "eructation" failure.

Having said all that, the whole idea is predicated on the animal NOT burping...which is why I asked if he was burping.

Unfortunately, to "guess he's burping" because he's a goat, and goats burp, doesn't really get us anywhere in determining whether suspecting vagal indigestion is a waste of time.. If we're gonna rule it out, we gotta figure out if he is -- in FACT -- burping...or not.

If he is burping...I'm out. No clue beyond that..

But...well...if it is, indeed, a free-gas pocket as you described, then I can't see how it's even possible that he's burping normally, else he'd be normal...which he clearly isn't.

So...the burning question in my mind...is he burping?

 

[aggieterpkatie]

Well, I don't typically hear my ruminants burp when I'm feeding them, and lately I haven't had a ton of "hanging out" time with them. I'll try to monitor him a bit closer this weekend.

 

[jodief100]

Well, y'all clearly have quite a bit more experience with this than I do...I'd never heard of a vagal indigestion -- let alone a rumen fistula -- before this morning. This is all new territory to me, so I'm just kinda using the power of logic and reasoning to try and figure it out...definitely not experience!

With that in mind, it simply occurred to me that if he's just got gas in there -- not trapped frothy gas, but just a big pocket of gas -- then he should very simply burp it out. That's what they do.. So, working under the assumption that it was just a big free-gas pocket, I made the logical jump that he must not be burping, else he wouldn't have that big gas pocket, right?...so then I gotta go try to figure out how to tell google that I want to know why a goat can't burp..

That's not easy, btw..

And that's how I landed on type I vagal indigestion, resulting from "eructation" failure.

Having said all that, the whole idea is predicated on the animal NOT burping...which is why I asked if he was burping.

Unfortunately, to "guess he's burping" because he's a goat, and goats burp, doesn't really get us anywhere in determining whether suspecting vagal indigestion is a waste of time.. If we're gonna rule it out, we gotta figure out if he is -- in FACT -- burping...or not.

If he is burping...I'm out. No clue beyond that..

But...well...if it is, indeed, a free-gas pocket as you described, then I can't see how it's even possible that he's burping normally, else he'd be normal...which he clearly isn't.

So...the burning question in my mind...is he burping?

It is a very good thread of logic you are following here. I think the OP should investiage this burping thing.

We just got carried away about the really cool cows with windows.

 

[jodief100]

...but when I was in school it was considered almost unheard of and very experimental. IA st. 198...let say late 80's

I am not too far behind you there, IA st. must have started what quickly became the norm.

 

[cmjust0]

You guys and yer fancy pants college ag experience... ...I have a piddly little AAS in computer information systems, from "way back" in 1999. :/

In the IT world, I'm "pre-Y2K" which is practically ancient...a veritable wizened sage, if you will.

But yeah...no...my degree?...NOT SUPER HELPFUL IN GOAT WORLD.

 

[()relics]

...but when I was in school it was considered almost unheard of and very experimental. IA st. 198...let say late 80's

I am not too far behind you there, IA st. must have started what quickly became the norm.

I think they tried them regularly...I don't think many of the early ones were successful, at least not for the cows. I got there in 86 and the window cow was the first thing everyone had to see....then it was put back in the closet. I remember they did a few while I was there but never had windows just valves, and I wasn't a cow person, and had much better things to do that stare into a cows stomach...As I recall.

 

[jodief100]

You guys and yer fancy pants college ag experience... ...I have a piddly little AAS in computer information systems, from "way back" in 1999. :/

In the IT world, I'm "pre-Y2K" which is practically ancient...a veritable wizened sage, if you will.

But yeah...no...my degree?...NOT SUPER HELPFUL IN GOAT WORLD.

My degree is BS Mechanical Engineering, not too helpful in the goat world either. One valuable thing this degree gives for "Goating" is the ability to think through a problem logically and scientifically. CM, you seem to have learned the same thing .

I also have a BS in Biology which is somewhat helpful. I am planning on buying a microscope next year to run fecals and put that degree to use finally. My college Ag experience is because my Ex's Dad taught at the Vet school at UI and I would go pester all the Ag guys when I got the opportunity to. I have done some pestering of the Ag guys at KY State too.