CL in pregnant doe?

[Straw Hat Kikos]

Each person should make the decision they are comfortable with.

I am not understanding the boarding for 3 months though. The entire ordeal will be over in under 30 days.. if ready to be lanced now than probably 2 weeks.

I do wonder about the stress of a goat being alone. Fine hospital or not, it is not the same and a goat alone for 3 months. Sounds like you are going to euthanize her anyway so why not now? Why put the goat through the stress of 3 months of being alone, not on pasture or any forage in a paddock, for the possibility of a few kids...
Sorry I think that is selfish.

I think people have screamed "EEEK CL" for so long yet few people research it or know anything about it. Therefore the instant response is always the same. My goat has a lumo- CRISIS- no research and it is panic time.

If one of my goats somehow ended up contracting CL I may not make the same decision as you. CL is much more serious in sheep because you cannot see it under the wool, it bursts and infects everyone. In goats it is easily managed. Meat Goats are rarely ever tested for this.

And sheep are also far more likely to carry it internally where it affects the internal organs and does cause death.

Yes, Internal CL is very rare in goats and while still rare in sheep they are much more likely to get it.

 

[20kidsonhill]

I didn't read all the comments,

To the poster:

After the abscess is cleaned up and healed the kids should not be at risk. Since you have a lot of time until she kids, that is really good.

There is a vaccine for CL, and I have read some people suggetion its use on CL positive animals and if used every 2 to 3 weeks 3 or 4 times in a row it has been reported by some that it will cause the abscess to fade away with out lancing it and cleaning it out. I have no experience with this, but I have had actual goat farmers tell me that they have done this several times with success.

New CL for goat vaccine is available through Jefferslivestock.

You could clean up the abscess, let her kid out, and then vaccinate her and the kids for CL.
I would of course consider getting a CL test before goign through the trouble of vaccinating.

Many goats will just develop one abscess to never get another one. It is important to NOT let any of the infection spread on your property to keep it under control.

 

[sprocket]

There is a vaccine for CL, and I have read some people suggetion its use on CL positive animals and if used every 2 to 3 weeks 3 or 4 times in a row it has been reported by some that it will cause the abscess to fade away with out lancing it and cleaning it out. I have no experience with this, but I have had actual goat farmers tell me that they have done this several times with success.

My experience with the CaseBac/Caseous DT vaccines is that they do not provide 100% immunity, though I believe they will lessen the severity of the outbreak. I have not tried any of the other vaccines due to limited availability in Canada. (I have, however, heard nothing but good things about Glanvac, though it's apparently been pulled from the North American market and is only available in Australia.)

How long have you had this doe? Have you tested the other goats in your herd? Do you know if any of the others are carrying it as well?

 

[sprocket]

You could clean up the abscess, let her kid out, and then vaccinate her and the kids for CL.
I would of course consider getting a CL test before goign through the trouble of vaccinating.

Also, you can't vaccinate the doe after the fact - vaccinations are for prevention, not treatment. The CL abscess itself, will have hopefully stimulated the immune system enough to prevent further outbreaks.

You can vaccinate the kids, though you should wait several months until their immune systems are developed enough to respond to the vaccine.

 

[sprocket]

My recommendations (based on my own experience with CL) would be as follows:

- Do you know if the rest of your herd is actually CL negative? If they test as positive, then the whole boarding point might be moot.

- Most of my does who have had CL in the past only have one, maybe two abscesses. Most get over it and are fine and lead happy, healthy lives.

- A very select few are repeat abscessers. They should be culled (and by cull, I again don't necessarily mean 'kill').

- If the rest of your herd is indeed CL negative and you have decided you don't want to reintroduce the CL+ does into the herd then:
* Isolate the CL+ doe.
* Deal with the abscess as previously stated.
* Pull the babies at birth and bottle feed
* Make the hard decision as to what you're going to do with the CL+ doe.

 

[20kidsonhill]

You could clean up the abscess, let her kid out, and then vaccinate her and the kids for CL.
I would of course consider getting a CL test before goign through the trouble of vaccinating.

Also, you can't vaccinate the doe after the fact - vaccinations are for prevention, not treatment. The CL abscess itself, will have hopefully stimulated the immune system enough to prevent further outbreaks.

You can vaccinate the kids, though you should wait several months until their immune systems are developed enough to respond to the vaccine.

not saying the doe will be cured of the disease, saying the repeated use of the CL vaccine for Goats has been reported to reduce the CL Abscess with out have to lance it.

Your doe will remain CL Positive, but some farms are reporting a good result by vaccinating positive does with the CL VAccine and thus helping to reduce the occurance of CL Abscesses in positive animals. This is off label, of course.

No vaccine is 100% affective.
In the united States there is a goat vaccine that has very goat results and very good reports that is available commercially, some states still require it to be subscribed by your vet, other states are not requiring a vet RX. You can look At Jefferlivestock to see the list of states that are allowing the sale of it.


People use to use the CAsBac Sheep vaccine, but that was reported to have more reactions and not quite as good results. We used the sheep vaccine for a couple years, with no problems, but we are know switching our farm to the Goat vaccine. We have been happy with it so far.

really, just was sharing options with you, since you clearly don't want to cull her.

 

[20kidsonhill]

You could clean up the abscess, let her kid out, and then vaccinate her and the kids for CL.
I would of course consider getting a CL test before goign through the trouble of vaccinating.

Also, you can't vaccinate the doe after the fact - vaccinations are for prevention, not treatment. The CL abscess itself, will have hopefully stimulated the immune system enough to prevent further outbreaks.

You can vaccinate the kids, though you should wait several months until their immune systems are developed enough to respond to the vaccine.

Many farms are using the New CL vaccine on positive animals, including some of the people that were originally using the new Goat vaccine before it was even marketed to the public. I have talked to them personally, it is not being labeled for this use however. I am not a vet, just passing on some information that I have heard from other Goat farmers about the use of the new goat vaccine available in the United states.

Lancing the abscess and not allowing it to get in your soil is still your first priority and ofcourse confirming if you are even dealing with CL.

 

[Straw Hat Kikos]

My recommendations (based on my own experience with CL) would be as follows:

- Do you know if the rest of your herd is actually CL negative? If they test as positive, then the whole boarding point might be moot.

- Most of my does who have had CL in the past only have one, maybe two abscesses. Most get over it and are fine and lead happy, healthy lives.

- A very select few are repeat abscessers. They should be culled (and by cull, I again don't necessarily mean 'kill').

- If the rest of your herd is indeed CL negative and you have decided you don't want to reintroduce the CL+ does into the herd then:
* Isolate the CL+ doe.
* Deal with the abscess as previously stated.
* Pull the babies at birth and bottle feed
* Make the hard decision as to what you're going to do with the CL+ doe.

I agree with all you said but why bother bottle feeding if there is no abscess? No risk of paying it on so why do that? Now if she had kids on her and an abscess that makes sense.

 

[sprocket]

My recommendations (based on my own experience with CL) would be as follows:

- Do you know if the rest of your herd is actually CL negative? If they test as positive, then the whole boarding point might be moot.

- Most of my does who have had CL in the past only have one, maybe two abscesses. Most get over it and are fine and lead happy, healthy lives.

- A very select few are repeat abscessers. They should be culled (and by cull, I again don't necessarily mean 'kill').

- If the rest of your herd is indeed CL negative and you have decided you don't want to reintroduce the CL+ does into the herd then:
* Isolate the CL+ doe.
* Deal with the abscess as previously stated.
* Pull the babies at birth and bottle feed
* Make the hard decision as to what you're going to do with the CL+ doe.

I agree with all you said but why bother bottle feeding if there is no abscess? No risk of paying it on so why do that? Now if she had kids on her and an abscess that makes sense.

For us it's a precautionary thing, just in case there's an abscess we haven't found (ie. under the belly around the udder) or in the case there's any residual seepage from the abscess (which if it's been cleaned properly and it's healed up, there shouldn't be). We're also doing a CAE prevention program which entails us putting the kids on the bottle regardless, so it's not any additional steps to our normal routine.

If you're able to do a routine inspection for abscesses on the entire goat on a regular basis to ensure there are no other abscesses, and you don't have any CAE worries, then sure, let the kids nurse. We have 60+ does and doing regular checks takes a significant amount of work. I was just erring to the safe side.

For us - where it's more of a disease management issue - this might not be as big of a deal. For someone with a smaller, clean herd, I would tend to go towards the disease elimination route.

 

[Straw Hat Kikos]

I'm glad you joined this forum. From the posts I've read by you and the little time I've had to check out what you say you seem to bring alot to the table. Glad you're here.

For us it's a precautionary thing, just in case there's an abscess we haven't found (ie. under the belly around the udder) or in the case there's any residual seepage from the abscess (which if it's been cleaned properly and it's healed up, there shouldn't be). We're also doing a CAE prevention program which entails us putting the kids on the bottle regardless, so it's not any additional steps to our normal routine.

CL is most commonly on the shoulders and is rarely in the udder and belly area though it can present itself there too. I can see having so many goats that could be rather difficult (though I'd find bottle feeding 120+ kids even harder) but as you said, for a smaller scale there should be no reason to miss a CL lump on a goat. I do not see the point in bottle feeding them ever unless there is a lump at the time kids are on the dam. This is also coming from someone who is very anti-bottle feeding unless NEEDED.

If you're able to do a routine inspection for abscesses on the entire goat on a regular basis to ensure there are no other abscesses, and you don't have any CAE worries, then sure, let the kids nurse. We have 60+ does and doing regular checks takes a significant amount of work. I was just erring to the safe side.

I have one doe with CL and evry once in a while I just look over her to see if there is a lump. You may not spot one at first but by the time that lump is a week you should see it easily even without having to put your hands on the goat.

For us - where it's more of a disease management issue - this might not be as big of a deal. For someone with a smaller, clean herd, I would tend to go towards the disease elimination route.

I agree there too. If you can why not cull the goat? Or even for large operations? idk I guess it depends on how you view it. I personally see CL is a non issue. It doesn't hurt the goat and doesn't mess with us. Once in forever you may need to do a little extra work but hey, now I get to keep this goat. Win win imo. If you see CL as an issue then get rid of it. That simple. I just don't see it as a big deal.