CL in pregnant doe?

[Rose N Lynne Farm]

Okay I will research more on formalin, and will be prepared with alchohol and iodine.

Hmm interesting..I was sure cull meant kill. Maybe I was mistaken, sorry if I was!

I'm sorry if that was mean I didn't mean it to be. I'm really tired and stressed. (Yes I know that's no excuse :/)

 

[Straw Hat Kikos]

I have a pregnant doe with a swollen spot by her lymph node. I haven't had it tested yet but I am just assuming CL so I can either be prepared for the results or extremely happy with the results. She is about 2 months in, Due on July 14. Is there anything I can do? Will it affect the babies? I know there's no treatment but I'm not sure how to be better prepared. She's separated from the rest of our herd until we get the results.

If it's on a lymph node then it more than likely is CL. Sucks but it's the truth.

Ok, nothing you can do for her. The abscess will do it's own thing, just get bigger, lose the hair, and then burst. Can't do much about it but you CAN keep it from going to anyone else. There is no treatment but there is a vaccine but I am not a fan of it and won't be using it ever. No CL vaccine for me. Also she does not need to be away from the herd right now. Go ahead and put her back with them.

She is one of my favorite does and I will do everything I can for her until she kids, and once she kids she has a good home to go to as a pet only. The people understand what CL is and they will lance the abscess if it appears again, and when it is ready. I refuse to cull any of my animals unless they are in pain and/or terminal with a illness that causes a slow and painful death. I do not just cull because a goat has a few contagious lumps, I would at least try to find her a good home with caring people, and people who understand what is wrong with the goat.

I will lance the abscess once it is ready and inject it with formalin, and then once she kids the kids will be pulled and we will send her to her new home after a few days.

I'm sorry if this sounds rude, but I just have the best interest in mind for her. I don't see why she can't live as long of a happy life as she can. This shouldn't be her death sentence.

Ok no formalin. It's poison and will hurt and sting. It will cause it to shrivel up and fall off basically. The only person I know that promotes that and talks about doing that is SWG and trust me, she does it the way I do it. She does the lancing and cleaning in a way close to the way I'll let you know about in a minute.

You are right in that this shouldn't be a death sentence.


Ok so CL is just some bacteria in the lymph nodes. That's all it is. No biggie. Once the bacteria builds up to a certain level the body deposits it to a lymph node. That's when it gets a lump. The CL puss is in a hard shell basically so it's not going anywhere and isn't inside the goat. If you feel the lump at the later stages you can see that it is set off the body. CL is transmitted only by direct oral contact or by entering the body thru a cut or some other way. Really it's only going to infect another goat if they ingest it. A CL+ goat can NEVER EVER give CL to other if they don't have a lump at that time and even if they do have a lump, if it's not open then they can't give it away.

It ill be a small lump but will get bigger and at around 14 days most times it will lose the hair. That's when it will burst and she must be taken from the others. You shave around it and clean the area around the lump. Be sure the goat is away from everyone else and in an area that nobody (goats) goes. Be over a tarp so you don't ruin the ground. (CL can live in soil for 3 years) Lance from the very top to the very bottom. Unlike what you hear this will not hurt. Because the lump has stretched the nerves so tight the goat will not be hurt be cutting the lump. You cut top to bottom and squeeze all that nasty puss out. CL puss is yellow to white most times and stinks alot of times. Squeeze it out and save it for testing. Once you do that use your fingers to get every bit of it out. Make sure it is all out and use water to help you out. Once done spray about 10cc of alcohol into it. May or may not hurt. Leave it sit for at least five minutes. Clean it again and put about 10cc of iodine in it. Be sure no puss is on the goat or anywhere else. The lump should be empty. Do not put her back until it has healed all that way which takes 10-14 days sometimes longer. Put iodine in and around it everyday.

The kid(s) will be fine and it's better she has it now then when they are on her. CL is strange in that you never know when or if they will get another lump. Some have one and never another. Some get it often like every 5 months. Your goat will be fine and doesn't need to die. CL doesn't hurt the goat so what's the big deal. Won't kill them and causes no pain.

Now I do need to say a few things. CL and Internal CL are different things. CL is no big deal. Internal CL is really bad and all animals with it need to die ASAP. Also imo a goat that gets alot of CL lumps should also be culled. More than 1 in a year and the goat goes is what I would do.

I'm tired and don't know if I missed anything. Ask anything you wish and I'll help you out. I'll give you good Cl info.

 

[sprocket]

She is one of my favorite does and I will do everything I can for her until she kids, and once she kids she has a good home to go to as a pet only. The people understand what CL is and they will lance the abscess if it appears again, and when it is ready. I refuse to cull any of my animals unless they are in pain and/or terminal with a illness that causes a slow and painful death. I do not just cull because a goat has a few contagious lumps, I would at least try to find her a good home with caring people, and people who understand what is wrong with the goat.

I will lance the abscess once it is ready and inject it with formalin, and then once she kids the kids will be pulled and we will send her to her new home after a few days.

I'm sorry if this sounds rude, but I just have the best interest in mind for her. I don't see why she can't live as long of a happy life as she can. This shouldn't be her death sentence.

Just from what I've heard/ read and how I understand it, the word "cull" doesn't necessarily mean to kill. It means to remove from your flock/ heard/ ownership etc. So in a sense by finding a new home for her you are culling her from your herd.

That's exactly how I'd meant it - removal from the herd - when I wrote it, and I'm sorry if it was upsetting. I can understand that this is a very stressful time - I remember the despair I felt when I found our first abscess in our herd.

I share similar feelings with Straw - I don't think that CL is as big an issue as many make it out to be. That being said, I'd prefer not to have it, given the choice.

 

[Straw Hat Kikos]

Of course. I think all of us would rather not have it than have it but it's no big deal. Really.

 

[Rose N Lynne Farm]

Thank you for all the information. I am able to breathe now..er until I get the results heh heh.

I am going to draw blood on all my does and send it into biotracking. I will also send in some of the puss from the abscess for a culture. So it will be when the abscess bursts.

When the abscess starts loosing hair and is tight I will drain it.

 

[Rose N Lynne Farm]

I took a nap so my mind is more clear and I can think more about things. The veterinary center where she is going is a very good place where she will get good care. She will be boarded there until the results come back. Then I have the choice of boarding her for a certain amount of money a month, and all her needs will be taken care of, or putting her down.

I am considering boarding her there until she has her babies. If she does have CL it is not advanced enough to affect the babies in utero right now. And she's at a large animal veterinary center so she would have a little paddock to herself, and not be in a metal cage. I think for the last three months it would be a good quality of life. Also there are people there 24/7 so the babies would be caught and pulled off of her as soon as they're born. If she suddenly declines and is doing very bad, I will choose to have her put down. As it would be the best choice for her. After she has her babies I will see how she's doing and go from there. Its also nice that the place where she will stay is right across from my school so I can hopefully go see her once in a while.

So all in all I would board her for the next three months until she has the kids, and then I'd pull them immediately and bottle raise them. Then I will see what too do after that. The reason I am willing to do this is because the kids could be perfectly fine, no CL, but if we kill her & them now. They would never have a life, and I would always question if they would've had CL.

What are the pros & cons of this decision? Do you think this will be okay?

 

[BlondeSquirrel04]

I think it is a little extreme to quarantine a goat in such a manner when you are only looking at CL. It would be in her best interest to stay where she is comfortable and not be isolated for such a long time. That stress is much more detrimental than a CL abscess.

The goat seems to have no clue that there's a lump on its body and cares even less if it ruptures. It's not a debilitating, paralyzing disease that CAE can be. This is why it's treated as nothing more than a cold in other countries. But in America, every little lump/bump/cut/sore/cough/sneeze is scrutinized and blasted with an arsenal of Western medicine.

Take advice only from those who have dealt with it first hand, not just the random blogger spewing out misinformation.

 

[Southern by choice]

Each person should make the decision they are comfortable with.

I am not understanding the boarding for 3 months though. The entire ordeal will be over in under 30 days.. if ready to be lanced now than probably 2 weeks.

I do wonder about the stress of a goat being alone. Fine hospital or not, it is not the same and a goat alone for 3 months. Sounds like you are going to euthanize her anyway so why not now? Why put the goat through the stress of 3 months of being alone, not on pasture or any forage in a paddock, for the possibility of a few kids...
Sorry I think that is selfish.

I think people have screamed "EEEK CL" for so long yet few people research it or know anything about it. Therefore the instant response is always the same. My goat has a lumo- CRISIS- no research and it is panic time.

If one of my goats somehow ended up contracting CL I may not make the same decision as you. CL is much more serious in sheep because you cannot see it under the wool, it bursts and infects everyone. In goats it is easily managed. Meat Goats are rarely ever tested for this.

 

[BrownSheep]

Each person should make the decision they are comfortable with.

I am not understanding the boarding for 3 months though. The entire ordeal will be over in under 30 days.. if ready to be lanced now than probably 2 weeks.

I do wonder about the stress of a goat being alone. Fine hospital or not, it is not the same and a goat alone for 3 months. Sounds like you are going to euthanize her anyway so why not now? Why put the goat through the stress of 3 months of being alone, not on pasture or any forage in a paddock, for the possibility of a few kids...
Sorry I think that is selfish.

I think people have screamed "EEEK CL" for so long yet few people research it or know anything about it. Therefore the instant response is always the same. My goat has a lumo- CRISIS- no research and it is panic time.

If one of my goats somehow ended up contracting CL I may not make the same decision as you. CL is much more serious in sheep because you cannot see it under the wool, it bursts and infects everyone. In goats it is easily managed. Meat Goats are rarely ever tested for this.

And sheep are also far more likely to carry it internally where it affects the internal organs and does cause death.

 

[Straw Hat Kikos]

Boarding her? What's the point? She may likely have one lump in her life. Maybe one or two a year. No need to kill, cull, or board her. If you are that worried about it then let her have the kids then eat her get so she doesn't go to waste.

You said its not advanced enough to affect the kids yet. Not sure what you mean. Only way they could get CL is if they ingest the puss. If she has a CL lump then it will all be over in a few weeks. I'm not sure I'm getting all this.

Edited because the stupid Swype on my phone was being an idiot! lol