Herdsire Qualifications - DNA testing

[Southern by choice]

I think retaining, using a buck on a selected number of does and waiting to see what they do is important.
Sometimes a buck can be not a whole lot to look at but does it do good things?
When we started out we bought registered bucks and we had unregistered does. When we got registered does the bucks had already been used on the unregistered does, this way we could see what they were doing.
Example-
Caleb - registered 18 m -24m buck Not much to look at (plus he was real fuzzy here) but excellent rear legs, dairy length.
This pic is when we first got him- he was in kind of rough shape



Heidi- UNregistered doe- she produced alot of milk but very weak udder attachment - yet distance from vulva to top of udder arch was very good... her fore udder was very week, causing sag
This doe was sold.


Yet, look at what the buck did for the daughters-

 

[Green Acres Farm]

I think retaining, using a buck on a selected number of does and waiting to see what they do is important.
Sometimes a buck can be not a whole lot to look at but does it do good things?
When we started out we bought registered bucks and we had unregistered does. When we got registered does the bucks had already been used on the unregistered does, this way we could see what they were doing.
Example-
Caleb - registered 18 m -24m buck Not much to look at (plus he was real fuzzy here) but excellent rear legs, dairy length.
This pic is when we first got him- he was in kind of rough shape

View attachment 40415

Heidi- UNregistered doe- she produced alot of milk but very weak udder attachment - yet distance from vulva to top of udder arch was very good... her fore udder was very week, causing sag
This doe was sold.
View attachment 40416

Yet, look at what the buck did for the daughters-

View attachment 40417

Very nice!


ETA: Is that the daughter of the previous doe?

 

[Goat Whisperer]

Yes.

First pic was of the buck "Caleb", second "Heidi", third was the Heidi/Caleb kid.

 

[goatgurl]

logged in and saw this thread so you know I had to throw my two cents in. I've raised goats for a lot of years and had registered goats, show goats for a long time. I still have purebred animals for the most part but no longer register them. some times I think I should but now that I no longer show I just don't want to deal with the aggravation and expense. with all that said I agree that looking at numbers, both la and milk tests is important but that isn't the whole picture. as @Southern by choice said you have to look at the whole picture. the buck I am using almost got sold young because his kids are slow to mature, he is long and lanky and so are his kids, they don't really mature until 2-3 years old but when they do they are lovely, have nice udders and milk well. I've had him for 7 years now and have only sold 1 buck from him and that was because the lady was desperate for a lamancha buck and she happened to call the day the buck was born. I also kept a buck out of him this year simply because he is getting older and I wanted to make sure I was covered. I just don't sell bucks. yes my animals are nice but so are lots of others are too. imo there are just way to many animals kept intact when they shouldn't be. in the long run that is your name your putting out there and people who it matters to will remember whether the goat they got from you was good or not so much. mediocre matters. castrate those boys... ok, quietly stepping of soap box now.

 

[Southern by choice]

I will say far too many go off of names and scores but really can't look at a goat.
In a Nigerian Buck we pay very close attention to that front end. Way too many may be square on their feet but you need to know what else to look for.

One of our Lamancha does we brought in is NOT the best confirmation wise- she is steeper in the rump than she should be, her front end is good except for her shoulder assembly... hips are a bit wonky. So why do we have her?
I wanted her- it is as simple as that. The goat is rugged, no fru fru about her. Her genetics are great, scores are great, milkers are great... but she is NOT great. All her bucks will go to the freezer. Her does will hopefully be better than her because we use the bucks we use.
She should have a really nice udder and she should be a high producer.

I make no bones about her faults, nor with any of our goats.

 

[OneFineAcre]

We are going to have a lot of babies this spring just like last year
I can't keep them to see what they all look like or what their daughters look like
We wethered most of them this year but we still have 2 bucklings to sell
I think for our farm since we have been participating in LA for 3 years and milk testing for 2 years that just offering bucks from our proven top does with the SGCH and GCH designation is best for us
I'm sure that a buckling outside of that criteria would make a great herdsire for some but I don't have the time to find out So next year just Zamia, Clarabelle, Rosie, and Taffy

 

[OneFineAcre]

How much would you ask ?
Taffy x Zeus
Rosie X Vivaldi
Clarabelle X Big Brown
Zamia X Vivaldi

 

[Goat Whisperer]

I think what you are doing is smart.
If you have 20 buckling born, it would be crazy to sell all 20 as breeding bucks.
Obviously, as with any other farm, you are going to sell bucks from your top does.
You would be crazy to wether a C.B. buckling and sell a buck out of one of your "other" does who do not have the accomplishments (/not as nice). I don't think anyone is arguing and it is silly to go back and forth at this point.

I think you should be the one to price your animals.
If you are doing LA, milktest etc. than you should know their worth and charge what you think is reasonable. I don't think anyone on the forum knows your animals better than you (& Maurine) do, so you should be able to calculate that.

I don't think she is suggesting that others sell every buckling born as a breeding buck.
We would never do this. I am a huge advocate of castrating your bucks.
Look at your boy Rocky. You still use him and like him but as you said, he doesn't meet your own requirements but he has produced good kids and you like him.
Did anyone hear the story about that "National Ch get of sire" this year?
If you did, you know what story I'm talking about.

I think she is just saying that a score is not everything.
If you read my other post you will see we have goats from the top lamancha genetics.
Some of these Lamanchas have highest ever LA in their genetics.

BUT that is not the whole goat.
I think they are quite nice, but know the areas that are lacking.

As you progress in goats, you start to develop different goals and see things differently.
Example- This will be your first year of wethering all you bucks except out of the 4 does you mention.

I do not want this to be an argument. The back and forth is just starting to be silly.

 

[OneFineAcre]

Actually I have not been going back and forth with anyone
Just answering the OPs question as to what we are doing not responding to what anyone else is doing or saying.

 

[Goat Whisperer]

Great