Here we go again, she's screaming...

[BlackSheepOrganics]

I am so sorry you are going through this!

If she is still there with you, has her temp come up or not? Is she still eating? Is her stomach sounding sloshy? Is it firm and larger than normal? Is the left side (top part of the stomach) larger than the right? Does she have a blank look to her eyes? When she is throwing herself on the ground is it normally on her left side?

Is there any chance she got into another type of animal feed or the goat feed?

Please understand I am not a goat expert. In fact, as of late, I've spent a LOT of time googling and begging for answers from the wonderful people on this form. We just recently got back into goats after having been without them for a number of years. We are absolutely LOVING having them again but I swear they will be the death of us yet!

If I were in your shoes right now, I'd be looking for any sign of bloat or enterotoxemia. However, if she is still eating regularly, probably not the problem.

The one goat we had with a heart issue would have heart palpatations and the temp would dive and then go right back up to normal suddenly. However, it did not just stay low. The temp would dive when the heart was racing and then come back up as she calmed down.

I know it sucks going through this with her, but she is SOOO lucky to have you!

 

[BlackSheepOrganics]

OOps! Nevermind! I must have been typing my reply when you were posting yours.

So glad she is doing better!

 

[dianneS]

The one goat we had with a heart issue would have heart palpatations and the temp would dive and then go right back up to normal suddenly. However, it did not just stay low. The temp would dive when the heart was racing and then come back up as she calmed down.

I know it sucks going through this with her, but she is SOOO lucky to have you!

You know, when she had her first few episodes, they only lasted a matter of seconds, then increased to minutes, then an hour or so and today was the worst.

She really doesn't seem to have any digestive distress. So far, the heart condition is the only diagnosis that really makes any sense. It just seems as if she's getting progressively worse each time this happens to her.

What did you do for your goat with the heart condition?

 

[BlackSheepOrganics]

An older gentleman who had had goats for years told us to give her Benadryl when she was having the episodes. Problem was she would have choked if we had.

We kept her until she died of old age (12 yrs old). Vet had told us she wouldn't live to see 6. HA! She was too ornery to die. We did not breed her for fear it would kill her and so she ran the yard with our yellow lab. He had no clue he wasn't a goat and she was clueless that normal goats don't sleep in a dog house with a dog.

When she would have what we called one of her "fits", we would just sit with her, taking turns and calm her down. Sometimes we would have a series of them but typically they would be few and far between. We learned they had a lot to do with what she had been up to that day.

Is your girl's temp back to normal now?

 

[dianneS]

She's 100% back to normal now.

I found her this morning with her sweater off and she had squirmed into an adjoining horse stall and was exploring. She had eaten quite a bit of hay during the night and just enough sweet feed. She had taken several nice poops. One poop was clumpy, but I think that's probably from her lying down and not pooping at all for several hours.

She's back in population this morning muching hay with the rest of the goats. She seems perfectly fine. I guess we'll just treat the situation the same way each time and eventually when she no longer comes out of it, we'll have to put her down. If I find her dead some day, at least I'll know what did it. I have time to prepare for the inevitable, so that's comforting to know it won't be a shock when she goes.

You know, benadryl does make sense. I may try that next time. I think I could get benadryl into my girl without her choking, or I could crush it up and mix it with something and syringe feed it to her.

NSAIDS like banamine can cause fluid retention (my husband is a PharmD) and we don't want that! Benadryl is a calmative too.

I'm glad we didn't run off to the vet to have her put down, but that day will probably come eventually, but for the meantime, we'll manage the situation to the best of our abilities.

Thanks everyone for the support!

P.S. She's back to chasing cats and head-butting them. That's her job "Cat patrol". The cats are the only thing smaller than her so that's who she picks on. She keeps the goat pasture totally cat-free!

 

[Emmetts Dairy]

Happy to hear shes up and about!! Im glad for you!! Love good news!!!

 

[Roll farms]

 

[elevan]

I mentioned in your previous post that her "fits" sound like seizures and the fact that you say the time they last is escalating sounds even more like a classic animal seizure. Her "reaction" to the calcium drench several hours later also sounds like a seizure. I know this "diagnosis" was discounted in your previous post, but this post still has me thinking that is what it is...take it or leave it. I'm not sure if Phenobarbital is safe for goats...but that is what I'd consider. But if it is seizures then she needs to be on a regular preventative plan.

*****************************************************

And if you decide to try the Benadryl (for heart) then I'd recommend a children's liquid formula rather than pills.

I am glad that she is doing better.

 

[dianneS]

Her "reaction" to the calcium drench several hours later also sounds like a seizure. *****************************************************

And if you decide to try the Benadryl (for heart) then I'd recommend a children's liquid formula rather than pills.

I am glad that she is doing better.

I never gave her a calcium drench?

I'm glad to hear benadryl comes in liquid formula, I will keep that on hand.

A seizure would not explain the presence of fluid in her lungs though, would it? Does a rapid heart rate, respirations and drop in body temperature come with seizures? I'm just wondering because I really don't know?

The vet said that the presence of fluid on her lungs that was misdiagnosed as pneumonia is eveidence of a heart problem. The fact that the problem clears on its own without medication is what has him thinking she's got a defect of some sort that causes it to come and go.

Usually when she's in this state she can walk and stand and her eyes are clear and focused, she just screams and bawls and pants with a rapid heart rate and low body temp. Only once in a great while when she gets really "bad" does she lay down. She seems panicked and scared rather than in pain.

Another thing that crossed my mind is that she never has these episodes in the spring or summer only fall and winter when the grasses are dead. We've eliminated feed issues, she gets super good quality hay (too good for goats!). I always thought it was triggered by the cold weather since her body temp would get so low and warming her by the fire always seemed to get her to snap out of it. But yesterday was so warm that this theory has been proven wrong. Now I'm wondering if she's eating something like dandilion (a natural diuretic) during the spring and summer that is helping to keep the fluid from accumulating? She's a real weed eater and very specific about the weeds she chooses. Maybe she instinctively knows which weeds she needs?

 

[elevan]

Her "reaction" to the calcium drench several hours later also sounds like a seizure. *****************************************************

And if you decide to try the Benadryl (for heart) then I'd recommend a children's liquid formula rather than pills.

I am glad that she is doing better.

I never gave her a calcium drench?

I'm glad to hear benadryl comes in liquid formula, I will keep that on hand.

A seizure would not explain the presence of fluid in her lungs though, would it? Does a rapid heart rate, respirations and drop in body temperature come with seizures? I'm just wondering because I really don't know?

The vet said that the presence of fluid on her lungs that was misdiagnosed as pneumonia is eveidence of a heart problem. The fact that the problem clears on its own without medication is what has him thinking she's got a defect of some sort that causes it to come and go.

Usually when she's in this state she can walk and stand and her eyes are clear and focused, she just screams and bawls and pants with a rapid heart rate and low body temp. Only once in a great while when she gets really "bad" does she lay down. She seems panicked and scared rather than in pain.

First...sorry about the calcium drench...my mistake on confusing a couple of posts

Now, the fluid in the lungs could be caused by a seizure if she aspirated during one (saliva would be enough). Heart rate and respirations could be explained with a seizure disorder as well. I don't know about the temp as I've never taken the temp of an animal having a seizure. Fluid on the lungs can be evidence of any number of problems not just the heart. Some animals can get fluid on their lungs with cancer...so just because it's evidenced in heart disease or disorder doesn't mean that it absolutely is...I just trying to give you another route to look into.

Seizures don't always take the typical fall over and shake route. I had a dog that did just as your goat is doing...acting freaked out and scared. I've also had one that does the typical fall over and shake. I have a human cousin who stares into space and makes a funny noise. And I've had a cat who just screamed. So as you can see seizures take many forms.

They also usually don't have a "regular" pattern. Sometimes environmental or food can bring them on. Preservatives in food were a trigger for one of my dogs. Weather was a trigger for the one who acted freaked out...colder weather usually.

If she were my goat and given my experience with seizures I would see if the vet would prescribe Phenobarbital 64.8 mg and give 2x a day (12 hours apart). Granted I've never checked to see if it's safe for goats, so you'll probably want to do some research there. Phenobarbital also comes in liquid form and can be administered during an episode...you could try that and if it brings her "out" immediately then you would know for sure...

If it's a seizure disorder, it should be treatable. Unless they go into a prolonged seizure and cannot be brought out...

I hope this helped and didn't confuse.