Horns and Nigerian Dwarfs

[genuck]

I know it's a personal choice but 50/50 is not good either. the horned goats will have a big advantage over the disbudded goats. all of them should be disbudded.

Sorry if it was misunderstood, all but one of my goats are horned. The one that is w/o horns was a lack of communication between me and the breeder. I bought her with horns, but when I went to pick her up they had just disbudded her for me without asking I would have preferred her to have horns. Of course she is high on the totem pole and gets jollies out of headbutting the ram lamb as I try to lead him... that's a whole nother topic...

 

[kstaven]

The Horned vs. Dehorned debate is right up there with Ford vs. Chevy, and Coke vs. Pepsi. It will never be won, and it will never end. Something I appreciate on BYH is that I've never been condemned for not disbudding. I joined a Yahoo group that about lynched me for leaving the horns intact.

I will say one thing about the "cooling factor" of horns. Our neighbor's saanen has large horns and if you put your hand on them they are VERY warm to the touch. I have to think that tehy allow some cooling, even if it is minimal.

I understand. You should go to a dairy meet up and see the reactions to pictures of horned goats on the milking lines. There are a few of us around that never disbudd our dairy herds.

On the other side of this conversation concerning mixed herds. We regularly bring in new does the supplement the milk supply and they are often without horns. We have never had an issue with those goats not being able to hold-their-own in the herd.

Where I have seen big problems is with goats that have been kept as a single or in a pair and then introducing them to a large herd or large herd to a pair situation. The goats kept single or paired do not have the same concept of herd or social structure that those from large herds have and that creates many issues. I have often seen these scenarios result in injured animals.

 

[manybirds]

I know it's a personal choice but 50/50 is not good either. the horned goats will have a big advantage over the disbudded goats. all of them should be disbudded.

My dehorned goats are quite capable of putting the horned goats in their place. My herd is 50/50 right now...don't judge...and I will not be disbudding or dehorning any of my horned goats or future kids that will stay on my farm. That is my stand and my choice for my farm, I understand and accept all risks and have not yet had an issue with my pygmy and dwarf goats.

Anyone wanting to buy a dehorned kid from me will pay the fee for disbudding by my vet and a deposit upon the birth of the animal.

I guess it's a personal preferance. one of the biggest reasons i don't like it is because when a beginer buys a horned goat and the horns are a problem he may sell his goat and give up and dislike goats because he had a horned one. I think everyone's first goat should be dehorned and then they should make the choice.

 

[elevan]

I know it's a personal choice but 50/50 is not good either. the horned goats will have a big advantage over the disbudded goats. all of them should be disbudded.

My dehorned goats are quite capable of putting the horned goats in their place. My herd is 50/50 right now...don't judge...and I will not be disbudding or dehorning any of my horned goats or future kids that will stay on my farm. That is my stand and my choice for my farm, I understand and accept all risks and have not yet had an issue with my pygmy and dwarf goats.

Anyone wanting to buy a dehorned kid from me will pay the fee for disbudding by my vet and a deposit upon the birth of the animal.

I guess it's a personal preferance. one of the biggest reasons i don't like it is because when a beginer buys a horned goat and the horns are a problem he may sell his goat and give up and dislike goats because he had a horned one. I think everyone's first goat should be dehorned and then they should make the choice.

If your first goat is dehorned, how are you gonna come to an educated decision to go horned?? I'm just asking.

I think first time goat owners need to visit (and spend time) with goats that are horned and goats that are dehorned before getting a goat. Talk to the breeders of both. Talk to lots of different people who own goats. Read lots of information about goats. AND THEN and only then can they make an educated decision on which route to go or if they even should go with goats.

I believe the bigger problem is new goat owners getting goats before they are fully prepared for goats.

 

[Goatmasta]

I think we should remember that the OP was asking about Nigerians. As far as Nigerians go the question to ask is if the goats are registered. Although a registered Nigerian can have horns they cannot enter a show ring with the horns. If you are buying registered Nigerians (with or without horns) I would assume that you are planning on selling "show quality" or you would have bought an unregistered animal. If you are planning to sell a "show quality" Nigerian you should be disbudding.

 

[kstaven]

For the sake of the show ring and $$$ I agree. I have never understood why horns are a DQ considering it is standard equipment on a goat.

 

[elevan]

For the sake of the show ring and $$$ I agree. I have never understood why horns are a DQ considering it is standard equipment on a goat.

Me neither...but that's a different argument

 

[Goatmasta]

For the sake of the show ring and $$$ I agree. I have never understood why horns are a DQ considering it is standard equipment on a goat.

Like Eleven I don't know why either, but rules are rules.

 

[Burmarie]

I like horns on a goat. The health benefit regarding the cooling factor in a hot dry area, the character expressed by them, and the finished silhouette are my main reasons for keeping horns. I also don't believe in altering an animal just because humans think it is better. I kinda think mother nature/whatever deity one may or may not give credit to, knew what she was doing when she created critters to fit into their individual nooks, so what would give me the right to think I know better?
Now, I am a fan of naturally polled goaties too, because that is the way they are meant to be, but the rules for showing goats keep many breeders from going with nature just to have the privilege of entering the show ring. If their was justice in the arena, to balance out what is probably a fear of safety issue, we could have horned competitions separate from the dis-budded ladies. I can't imagine how taking the horns off of a kid makes them better or worse than they would have been if left intact from a quality standpoint.
I digress and chatter on! My herd is two dis-budded ladies, one done by accident by the breeder after I requested her horns left intact, and a horned doeling and her half brother wether. We will see if I have a change of heart as these kids grow up, but I rather doubt it since I grew up with horned goats on my parents place back in Idaho.
Just one silly girl's opinion!

 

[OneFineAcre]

I like horns on a goat. The health benefit regarding the cooling factor in a hot dry area, the character expressed by them, and the finished silhouette are my main reasons for keeping horns. I also don't believe in altering an animal just because humans think it is better. I kinda think mother nature/whatever deity one may or may not give credit to, knew what she was doing when she created critters to fit into their individual nooks, so what would give me the right to think I know better?
Now, I am a fan of naturally polled goaties too, because that is the way they are meant to be, but the rules for showing goats keep many breeders from going with nature just to have the privilege of entering the show ring. If their was justice in the arena, to balance out what is probably a fear of safety issue, we could have horned competitions separate from the dis-budded ladies. I can't imagine how taking the horns off of a kid makes them better or worse than they would have been if left intact from a quality standpoint.
I digress and chatter on! My herd is two dis-budded ladies, one done by accident by the breeder after I requested her horns left intact, and a horned doeling and her half brother wether. We will see if I have a change of heart as these kids grow up, but I rather doubt it since I grew up with horned goats on my parents place back in Idaho.
Just one silly girl's opinion!

This looks like an old thread that was brought back to life.

The standard for dairy goats has been to disbud. I think the requirement for showing reflects the standard, not the other way around. Most likely the reason has been traditionally the close human contact, and close quarters of milking parlors.

Let me ask you a question. You "don't believe in altering an animal just because humans think it's better"

But then you mention you have a wether. Wasn't he born with testicles?

I'm sorry, I love asking people that