How to find the right buck for my does....time is now!

[freemotion]

See why I just buy a buckling? He is isolated for a few weeks/months anyways. Then even if I have to give him away (can't imagine that being necessary) I end up ahead of the game financially. Dairies sell bottle babies in the spring for like $10 each if you are up to the work. I'm not.

And it takes no effort to frame your answer in a nice way....if you really want to protect goats all over the country from CL, etc, people will listen better if your answer is easy to read and polite. Just sayin'.

 

[glenolam]

And it takes no effort to frame your answer in a nice way....if you really want to protect goats all over the country from CL, etc, people will listen better if your answer is easy to read and polite. Just sayin'.

 

[()relics]

.....

That same breeder, who BTW does test for everything under the sun*, just mentioned that she has to keep her own bucks because other breeders she knows close and far away are too scared to have 'shot gun weddings' let alone allow a doe to stay/buck to leave for any period of time.

*She tests for two reasons - 1: She shows her goats and wants to have the highest return by breeding proven winners (mind you I know little of show quality, registered goats) 2: She must have all that testing done if she ever wants to use another buck. If other breeders were less concerned of what could happen, it'd save a lot of time and money. JMO.... Then again, I'm not an experienced goat person, therefore I have no common knowledge to share....

If this person does not operate her farm as a closed system then she would never be considered a "clean herd". Anytime...ANYTIME another goat entered her facility she would have to retested her herd to be sure, that in fact, someones goat didn't bring something to her place...That doesn't sound very economical to me...And if something did turn up? Her "clean" status would be lost and she then could essentially cull everything and start rebuilding. So much for her "grand champion show goats"...they would be nothing more than slaughter animals.
Goats as a living??? Yeah...No...Serious about Biosecurity? Definitely...I have too much invested to start selling them for slaughter price....
An analogy in closing: You fall off your favorite horse and hear something snap. You figure you may need some professional help. You would:
A. Call your plumber
B. Call the local Librarian because you are sure they have "medical type" books in the library.
C. Call the Docter

I would call the docter. Even though the plumber or the librarian may be able to dispense some knowledge, It should be considered unproven, At Best

 

[aggieterpkatie]

1. Sorry, but it'd be hard for a goat to get CAE from a breeding, so I'll just cross that one off the list.

2. I find it hard to believe that people who take their goats to shows (exposing them to ALL sorts of goats who may or may not have CL) is having such a fit about a driveway breeding proposal.

And just because someone charges a $50 stud fee does not mean they have sub par goats. A very big Nubian breeder/shower lives just down the road from me, and she charges $50 for driveway breedings.

Just my $.02.

 

[cmjust0]

Speaking of shows, I also know someone who had a goat all lined up for a series of shows....and it popped up a CL knot.

It was all kept very hush-hush, but I was asked if I wanted to come see how one was drained and flushed....um, no thanks. I'm gonna take a pass this time, cause...yanno...I guess I'd rather NOT have to burn my clothes and sell the car I drove home in.

Last I heard, the goat healed up and haired back over juuuuuuuust in time to be taken to show...at which point it was almost certainly mingled with other folks' fancy show animals.

We don't show, either. :/

 

[aggieterpkatie]

AND, if you can't even have another goat walk on the property for a breeding and maintain "closed" herd status, then why can you take a goat to a show and maintain it? Show goats are next to each other for several days, nosing all around etc.

 

[jodief100]

This is one of the reason we stick to market goats. I just don't want to deal with the fear of loosing your entire herd to someone else's bad judgement about bringing questionable animals to shows. I vaccinate against everything I can and make sure any animals that are symtomatic get seperated and sent to market when economically feasable.

Just for information, I did get CL brought onto my property, from a buck and doe I bought out of a CLOSED herd. We have it under control now, no additonal animals are symptomatic. The ones that were are well isolated. Since I vaccinate now testing is useless, Cas-Bac gives a false positive.

My advice, consider the risks and make the best decision for your situation. This discussion is great because you are able to get a good education about those risks. I don't think that someone with a few goats for thier own enjoyment needs to be be AS concerned about CL as someone who has high end show goats. No you don't want to have a callous attitude about it either it is a serious disease. There is a risk/reward analysis that needs to be done with every choice we make in life. Just be honest with yourself about the risks and give full disclosure to any potential customers. The most important part: enjoy your goats!

 

[savingdogs]

I like your perspective, jodieF, thank you. Helps to set a calmer tone in this thread as well, which it needed!

It does seem that there are many examples of disease spread despite cautions being taken. I think it will boil down to using good judgement about people and how the animals/facilities themselves look.

I'm beginning to think I'd prefer to use some word of mouth sources to find a stud rather than CL where I saw so many last year, such as asking for a reference from the folks we bought these gals from.
I have some leads at my work as well.

 

[()relics]

AND, if you can't even have another goat walk on the property for a breeding and maintain "closed" herd status, then why can you take a goat to a show and maintain it? Show goats are next to each other for several days, nosing all around etc.

Any show goats are kept in a string always apart from your primary herd. They are fed differently so it only makes sense to always keep them seperate. When you arrive at a show you are given a thorough pat-down by a show official, anything doesn't look right the goat stays on the trailer. You can unload anywhere and use any path, usually to get into the make-up barn. You are given a perfectly clean, down to the limestone or concrete,area or stall, that you bed or disinfect, whatever as you see fit. A goat at a show is not free to roam around and swap spit with all the other animals, it must stay within certain boundaries. Common walkways to and from the arena are just that Common, dip your animals feet if that makes you feel better, I do. As mentioned earlier, when you bring the animal home it stays with your other show stringers or is quarentined for At Least 30 days, before it would be allowed to comingle with any other of your herd. Really a show is filled with goats that are owned by breeders, with every intention of winning....Honestly does anyone think that someone would try to slip in a sickly goat, knowing it will be subjected to a visual inspection. Then expecting to place something sick against other show animals? You may fool some people but that is an awful chance to take, trying to fool the show superintendant, the judge, and other breeders/showman, who all know what a sick or diseased goat looks like...And have one of your goats refused entry...You will never live it down. You will be double checked Extra Carefully from then on at any show you attend, never mind about selling any of your stuff to your fellow showmen. If you show or have ever shown You Know Reputation is EVERYTHING. I won't argue the increased chance of external parasites and the occasional respiratory infection but beyond that...And yes to be a completely clean herd you would need to retest your show stock while they are in quarentine at the end of the season.

 

[cmjust0]

You are given a perfectly clean, down to the limestone or concrete,area or stall, that you bed or disinfect, whatever as you see fit. A goat at a show is not free to roam around and swap spit with all the other animals, it must stay within certain boundaries.

Uhhh...the KY state fair hosts many, many show competitors for all classes of goats -- both in dairy, and meat breeds -- and they're all housed in a big barn that's open to the public. People *routinely* walk all around the goat pens, ogling and petting goats from one pen to the next, to the next, to the next.. Some breeders make hand sanitizer available and put up a sign asking folks to sanitize between goats...but people don't.

Biosecurity?...yeah, pretty much none.

Really a show is filled with goats that are owned by breeders, with every intention of winning....Honestly does anyone think that someone would try to slip in a sickly goat, knowing it will be subjected to a visual inspection.

As I said earlier, I *personally know* of at least one instance in which a CL+ goat was doctored on specifically so that she could still be entered in an upcoming show.

So, yeah, I *do* think someone would take a chance on slipping a diseased goat into a show.

I also *personally know* of at least one instance where someone came to a show without required health papers, found an official they knew, told them they didn't have the health papers....and were good ol' boy'd right on into the show ring.

What I think -- and forgive me for saying this, but -- what I think is that if you truly believe the animals at a show are healthy and safe simply because they're at a show, you're fooling yourself.

Afterall, there's money to be made at shows...people do lots of irresponsible things that have the potential to harm others when there's money involved.