If the eyelids are white looking, does that mean they need wormed???

[treeclimber233]

the pellet wormer I used is called Positive Pellet by Manna Pro. Says it is Goat Wormer medicated and has supplimental copper. Active ingredient is partially hidden in a crease and partly cut off. What I can see is ....rantel tartrate. Instructions say feed once a month.

 

[Roll farms]

The active ingredient in that is Morantel Tartrate.

 

[cmjust0]

The only misconception being that my goats are 100 days pregnant in January and Febuary to kid in March and April. So this is their mid-winter worming.

Why would that be a problem with regard to deworming? Im aware that *some* dewormers cause abortion, but not all. Or maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying here...?

Not to argue (too much) but the L4 is the blood sucking young adult and the L5 stage is the egg laying adults that they turn into. L4 is the stage that causes the most damage to the host and hibernates in the stomach wall. At least that is what I was taught.

Yeah, you're right about them molting from L4's on into L5's -- but it's definitely L3's that go into hypobiosis.. But yes, when they come out of hypobiosis, they actually do molt twice more, not once as I said previously. That's my bad.

So, let's find this miracle wormer, I really could use the money

I've actually already found one that I think would be really close to "miracle" level, but it's a bit dangerous and it's not supposed to be available in the US.. Let me stress that -- it's not supposed to be.. The fact that it's not technically available here, and therefore hasn't been exposed to "our" barberpoles, and that it's reallysupergood at killing dormant barberpoles is why I think it could be darn near miraculous as a mid-winter dewormer here in the USA.. I've been saying I was gonna try it for the past two winters, but I don't have the money for a livestock scale nor the nerve to do it without one.. I'll eyeball weights for almost any med, but when one of the O/D side-effects is BLINDNESS...yeah, even I'm not that crazy.

 

[cmjust0]

Morantel and Pyrantel are nicotinic agonists, just like Levasole, and Levasole's pretty good stuff.. I suspect they must have worked at some point, and -- like Levasole -- they may have been neglected long enough to work again.. Now, why they -- Morantel, specifically -- are relegated mostly to pelleted feed, I don't know, but I *suspect* that they're probably the two most underutilized commonly available dewormers out there. I've never seen recommendations on 'hyper-dosing' like we have with other dewormers (1ml/25lbs with Ivomec, for instance, versus the label dosage of 1ml/110lbs) though the margin of safety is supposed to be really high.. Makes me wonder if you could find it in drench form and give A LOT of it, if it might just work..

I'd like to see a study on these two dewormers, but with a drench, and at about 4x the label dose to start.. They might very well turn out to be something we could use.

 

[sunny]

Morantel Tarrate=tetrahydropyrimidine

Morantel is promply motabilised, peak activity is 4 to 6 hours after dosing and it leaves the body with in 96 hours.
It interacts with Pyrantel, Levamisole, and Piperazine.

So, in 8 days it's gone. Just to be safe you should be good to go with Quest at 10 days after treatment.

 

[sunny]

That's a really good strategy to employ, but perhaps not for the reasons you're employing it. If you deworm heavily in the early spring, what you're actually doing are killing the earliest adults and some of the L3's, which effectively 'front loads' your deworming schedule for the year.

I'm just saying that this isn't quite what's happening. The Ivermectin is getting the arrested worms in the winter whether they be stage T5 or Z27 BUT, I've always been extremly careful with Ivermectin trying not to create resistance.
The Valbanzen that they are given early spring for liver fluke may be killing the adults and doing what you're saying.
The fact that they are never put out on wet grass helps also. The larve can't crawl up dry grass as well.

It might all come to naught soon anyway. My neighbor just turned a small herd of the skinniest most pitiful goats loose right across my back fence. You can look at them and see the cocci and stuff oozing out practically. If he's not being careful or just not bothering to worm, his parasites may find their way to my yard. Luckily the creek flows from my place to his, that will help.

 

[Roll farms]

I'd be tempted to lay a strip of 7 granules along the property line....

 

[cmjust0]

That's a really good strategy to employ, but perhaps not for the reasons you're employing it. If you deworm heavily in the early spring, what you're actually doing are killing the earliest adults and some of the L3's, which effectively 'front loads' your deworming schedule for the year.

I'm just saying that this isn't quite what's happening. The Ivermectin is getting the arrested worms in the winter whether they be stage T5 or Z27 BUT, I've always been extremly careful with Ivermectin trying not to create resistance.
The Valbanzen that they are given early spring for liver fluke may be killing the adults and doing what you're saying.
The fact that they are never put out on wet grass helps also. The larve can't crawl up dry grass as well.

If you're lucky enough to still have ivermectin-susceptible worms on your place, then yep, you're killing a lot of hypobiotic worms if you're deworming post-hypobiosis. Which, for many of us is happening right about now. Like I said, it's a really good strategy, and I'm encouraged to hear that it's working for you. I've heard from some others who worm really early in the Spring that they don't have the kind of worm problems many other folks see.. I wish the "experts" (as in, universities and county extension agents, etc) would recommend it to more people.

As far as wet grass.. ..we used to have a member here who would give out all kinds of deworming advice to folks based on her deworming strategies, despite the fact thta her goats were dry-lotted. I made the point one day that goats on a dry-lot really shouldn't have *any* barberpole worms since grass is an integral part of a barberpole's life cycle, but of course, I was told that was just wrong wrong wrong..

It might all come to naught soon anyway. My neighbor just turned a small herd of the skinniest most pitiful goats loose right across my back fence. You can look at them and see the cocci and stuff oozing out practically. If he's not being careful or just not bothering to worm, his parasites may find their way to my yard. Luckily the creek flows from my place to his, that will help.

Unless they poo across the fence, I wouldn't think you'd have much to worry about.. Goat berries roll, tho. :/ I'd be more concerned about them sniffing noses through the fence..