Livinwright Farm
Goat Fancier
I've noticed. 
Kid Watch Feb/March: Jenny day 138
- Thread starter TheMixedBag
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #42
TheMixedBag
Ridin' The Range
Well, I've listed everything she's being fed (did forget to add alfalfa hay flakes here and there, and canola oil on the pellets), but she never eats it all, pregnant or no, she leaves a bunch and nibbles here and there. She's also definitely the herd queen, so no getting shoved away from feed.
It may have to do with how many she's having, how close she is to kidding (day 139 now, tomorrow she'd be safe to kid) and how much that's pulling down. It may also have a lot to do with how young she was when she was first bred (she'll never reach full height or weight). One way or the other, if I bump up her feed now, she's never going to be able to kid easily. So long as she's got a good layer of fat over her ribs (she does), I'm not horribly concerned with her hip bones, she'll probably look a lot better a day or so after she kids.
Also-I'll bet you anything the doe that's linked wasn't so great a milker (she may have been, that's just my first impression from the page-her looks are mentioned, but no performance records, DHIR, or anything else). Jenny's grand-dam milked 5200 lb for 2004, and her siblings are milking well over 3000 lb each. She milked nearly a gallon as a FF, and is probably going to put a lot more into this year. That alone causes her to look like a walking skeleton.
I'm not trying to argue that she's in perfect condition, I know she's not. She's just never going to look like that doe, she wasn't bred to, and I'll never get her into that kind of condition.
It may have to do with how many she's having, how close she is to kidding (day 139 now, tomorrow she'd be safe to kid) and how much that's pulling down. It may also have a lot to do with how young she was when she was first bred (she'll never reach full height or weight). One way or the other, if I bump up her feed now, she's never going to be able to kid easily. So long as she's got a good layer of fat over her ribs (she does), I'm not horribly concerned with her hip bones, she'll probably look a lot better a day or so after she kids.
Also-I'll bet you anything the doe that's linked wasn't so great a milker (she may have been, that's just my first impression from the page-her looks are mentioned, but no performance records, DHIR, or anything else). Jenny's grand-dam milked 5200 lb for 2004, and her siblings are milking well over 3000 lb each. She milked nearly a gallon as a FF, and is probably going to put a lot more into this year. That alone causes her to look like a walking skeleton.
I'm not trying to argue that she's in perfect condition, I know she's not. She's just never going to look like that doe, she wasn't bred to, and I'll never get her into that kind of condition.
helmstead
Goat Mistress
You seem very set in your idea that underconditioned does are better milkers than properly conditioned does. I totally disagree with you.
Yes, lactating does loose some condition, but should never become walking skeletons.
And, I'm not only referring to her hips...look at her spinal process, her shoulders, etc etc. She has no muscling along the top line at all.
Yes, lactating does loose some condition, but should never become walking skeletons.
And, I'm not only referring to her hips...look at her spinal process, her shoulders, etc etc. She has no muscling along the top line at all.
- Thread starter
- #44
TheMixedBag
Ridin' The Range
I'm not saying they should be-never said that anywhere. I said that because she is, she will always look like that. Her siblings do, her dam did, her daughter does. She is not a doe who will ever be in show condition (and yes, that is what the other doe is-show condition). If I can feed her what I do and she doesn't gain any condition, then odds are she isn't going to. She's not being underfed, not by a long shot, and she's definitely clear of worms, so there's not a whole lot I can do.
I think where a lot of my opinions come from is that far too many people breed dairy goats for show, and they're almost all over-conditioned. My nubian is a perfect example. She's overweight, but a shining example of being in show condition.
(if I'm sounding testy, it's because I've had this discussion before when someone was threatening to call animal control because my goats were "too skinny".)
I think where a lot of my opinions come from is that far too many people breed dairy goats for show, and they're almost all over-conditioned. My nubian is a perfect example. She's overweight, but a shining example of being in show condition.
(if I'm sounding testy, it's because I've had this discussion before when someone was threatening to call animal control because my goats were "too skinny".)
Livinwright Farm
Goat Fancier
I will add, given what yesterday held (Edited to fix spelling error) for Helmstead, neither she or I are coming at you, and we are not trying to give you deconstructive criticism. I say this, because you started getting defensive in your response.
I do agree that your doe shows signs of being underconditioned(hips, shoulders, spine protruding), even for a milking doe. She doesn't look emaciated(can't make out individual ribs), so that is good. And the picture you gave for last year, even though it is a tad glowing, shows her in a better condition that she is now.
From what you have been saying, you do what you can to give her proper nutrition. No one here is disputing that. Perhaps your vet can help you find something with more protein to help her bulk up, not to be confused with fattening up. Fattening only happens when you have nice young meat goats you are trying to sell to the Greeks! 
It IS possible to get her into more of a good(maybe not perfect) condition.
Also, I would have your vet run some tests for worms, parasites, and/or diseases that might be causing this with her. Better to be safe than sorry.
I really hope that your vet can help you find & fix what is causing this in her.
I do agree that your doe shows signs of being underconditioned(hips, shoulders, spine protruding), even for a milking doe. She doesn't look emaciated(can't make out individual ribs), so that is good. And the picture you gave for last year, even though it is a tad glowing, shows her in a better condition that she is now.
From what you have been saying, you do what you can to give her proper nutrition. No one here is disputing that.
Perhaps your vet can help you find something with more protein to help her bulk up, not to be confused with fattening up. Fattening only happens when you have nice young meat goats you are trying to sell to the Greeks! It IS possible to get her into more of a good(maybe not perfect) condition.
Also, I would have your vet run some tests for worms, parasites, and/or diseases that might be causing this with her. Better to be safe than sorry.
I really hope that your vet can help you find & fix what is causing this in her.
- Thread starter
- #46
TheMixedBag
Ridin' The Range
(like I said, if I'm getting testy, sorry. NOT a fun conversation explaining dairy goats).
She's had a fecal done, her last dose of Ivomec was last week. She's clear of worms. She won't do BOSS, I can't get Calf Manna, I started her on beet pulp yesterday. And as fuzzy as the picture is, her condition this summer wasn't much better. Her spinal process was still visible, and it drove me bug nuts.
found a better picture of her summer condition. This one was from June, she was drying off at this point. It's pretty much her average condition.
http://s446.photobucket.com/albums/...le Uploads/?action=view¤t=Photo0019.jpg
And this is from this morning, before I threw a blanket over her (it went from high 70's to mid 30's...will be back up this afternoon) and everyone else.
She's had a fecal done, her last dose of Ivomec was last week. She's clear of worms. She won't do BOSS, I can't get Calf Manna, I started her on beet pulp yesterday. And as fuzzy as the picture is, her condition this summer wasn't much better. Her spinal process was still visible, and it drove me bug nuts.
found a better picture of her summer condition. This one was from June, she was drying off at this point. It's pretty much her average condition.
http://s446.photobucket.com/albums/...le Uploads/?action=view¤t=Photo0019.jpg
And this is from this morning, before I threw a blanket over her (it went from high 70's to mid 30's...will be back up this afternoon) and everyone else.
SDGsoap&dairy
Loving the herd life
Actually... on second thought rather than hijack your kidding thread I've moved this to a new thread.
- Thread starter
- #48
TheMixedBag
Ridin' The Range
She cannot possibly hold out until 150. Yet again, she had white mucous, with a tiny bit of amber discharge hanging (maybe 3/4 inch). Her udder looks fuller, but knowing her dam, she'll be an 8 hour filler.
The bad news is, Milky Way finally started discharging this morning, after almost 2 weeks without much more than some clear/amber discharge here and there. In case nobody remembers, this is my CAE-positive doe. Now, in my situation, I don't even have a way to keep my buck separate, let alone a positive doe. It was fortunate when she kidded that it was all in one place and very easy to clean. No other goat was near her or where she kidded until several days after I cleaned up, so there was no worries there, but I was seriously hoping she'd hold off on this until she sold.
I checked everyone over very carefully for open sores, and nobody has any, and while she's not dripping (it's drying as soon as it's there, it seems-none has made it halfway down her tail), I can't control it if it does. I know water is supposed to break the blood cell, preventing spread of the virus, but it's too cold to hose her down and there's no way I can hose down the pen,either.
Now, CAE doesn't bother me, in fact, it's not something that really concerns me, except for one reason. I want to maintain a negative herd for marketing purposes. Under any other circumstances, this doe wouldn't even have been here to kid, but I was unable to even find someone interested in her until a few weeks before she kidded, and I didn't want to risk taking her to the auction not knowing when her due date was. Once she's gone, I'll retest Jenny, and hope for the best, but even if she does come up positive, she's going to stay. I'll just have to give up showing and eat extra kids....
The bad news is, Milky Way finally started discharging this morning, after almost 2 weeks without much more than some clear/amber discharge here and there. In case nobody remembers, this is my CAE-positive doe. Now, in my situation, I don't even have a way to keep my buck separate, let alone a positive doe. It was fortunate when she kidded that it was all in one place and very easy to clean. No other goat was near her or where she kidded until several days after I cleaned up, so there was no worries there, but I was seriously hoping she'd hold off on this until she sold.
I checked everyone over very carefully for open sores, and nobody has any, and while she's not dripping (it's drying as soon as it's there, it seems-none has made it halfway down her tail), I can't control it if it does. I know water is supposed to break the blood cell, preventing spread of the virus, but it's too cold to hose her down and there's no way I can hose down the pen,either.
Now, CAE doesn't bother me, in fact, it's not something that really concerns me, except for one reason. I want to maintain a negative herd for marketing purposes. Under any other circumstances, this doe wouldn't even have been here to kid, but I was unable to even find someone interested in her until a few weeks before she kidded, and I didn't want to risk taking her to the auction not knowing when her due date was. Once she's gone, I'll retest Jenny, and hope for the best, but even if she does come up positive, she's going to stay. I'll just have to give up showing and eat extra kids....
- Thread starter
- #49
TheMixedBag
Ridin' The Range
More mucous this morning, bigger udder, ligs still there, definitely not sunken in this morning. I'll admit, she knows how to drive me nuts.
Livinwright Farm
Goat Fancier
DOE CODE STINKS!!TheMixedBag said:
I wouldn't think that my 7 month old Cali would have learned it yet... but apparently they know the code even at that young an age. 
