Latestarter's ramblings/musings/gripes and grumbles.

[Bruce]

Plus, it always seems that people video their Best and easiest handled animal, so ya never see how to get them into positions to do what ya need to get done.

No, REALLY???
You mean like the lady that gives her cat its insulin WHILE it eats? I tried that once with Samantha. For 3 days she wouldn't if I was ANYWHERE near her.

Or the guy who showed how to halter an alpaca? Or the lady that sheared one standing up just tied at the head (and not tight)??

 

[Bruce]

Joe, did you ever follow up on the "mail order" oral appliance for apnea? I think my "from the dentist" one is getting long in the tooth (if you will). Sure wouldn't mind replacing it with something equally effective but a LOT less expensive.

 

[Latestarter]

Wow GB... $100 for all that was done for you (and your animals) is quite a value! Like I said, I'm really happy with the vet and staff. I'm pretty sure they're gonna be "keepers" but I've only had the one visit so far... time will tell for sure.

I specifically asked if the cocci was an issue as it typically isn't in adult goats. She said she didn't think so but that it was higher than she'd expected. I'll obviously have it checked again when I do the next fecal in a week or so. If it's still high, I'll get something to treat that also. One thing at a time... The shot was only for the worms (as far as I know). I asked for a shot as preferable over an oral application, as I can do a shot by myself. I don't think I'd be able to control the adult goats & manipulate the head/neck & mouth to try and do an oral application. I've never tubed an animal either and am concerned I'd get the lungs instead of the rumen... my luck tends in that direction altogether too often. Maybe I'll ask the vet/tech to teach me that while I'm there with them.

Mini, I asked if they do farm calls and they said they would in an emergency or to do whole herd evaluations/etc. (Why else would you call and ask them to?) They prefer you bring the affected animal in to them... They have some pretty extensive handling facilities there. Not sure how you'd do that (easily) with something like a stalled labor in a heifer/cow for example or a large animal that's "down"...

Babs, having all 3 tests run for $15 is a steal IMO but I'm quite happy with a $35 cost as that works out to less than $12/test. I feel that's fair. SBC (& others), I'll try to remember to ask what lab they use and I also need to remember to tell them that I want printed lab test results on letterhead from the lab for documentation and records. I hope the time they quoted for results was accurate, but even if it's 2 weeks, I'm OK with that. BTW Babs, that's crazy that you already have goats in heat... I mean we just passed the summer solstice! So what are you going to do? Will you breed them now or try and put them off for 3-4 months? I mean weather wise, wouldn't Nov kids be pretty easy? Maybe your goats are striving to be three times per two year breeders, like some other goat & sheep breeds?

Yeah... as DevonV said, the law requires rabies vac annually. Maybe the state owns stock in the rabies pharma company... At least there's a savings as I don't have to license (pay a tax to own) my dog.

Bay, I've seen the commercials for Bravecto. The protection (results and time length) sounds awesome but IMHO the possible side effects are a bit much... Have your dogs had any side effects/issues with it? I really don't need that particular protection at this point as neither the goats nor Mel have flea or tick issues. In my entire time here I've found one tick on Mel and it had just attached and had not blown up yet, and one tick on me, which was climbing my pant leg. I've seen exactly zero fleas bow). Maybe because I don't have sand here? Whatever the reason, I'm very happy about it!

Cntryboy, my son and his family haven't come yet... Looks like some time next month (July, now only 2 days away... Where has this year gone to?) The G-kids and his wife (teacher) start back to school around Aug 14th. As for the youtube videos... the videos are helpful to me for sure, just like book knowledge and pictures are valuable but obviously nothing is as beneficial or the same as live experience... Actually, a video is the next best thing to being there... you just don't get to ask questions... But you have to start some place and you go with what you've got available. Think about it... Every Vets starts out with books and reading and videos over a long period before they ever get "(professional/teacher) hands on". All the latest breakthroughs are spread and learned through published works/journals/etc. So reading is still a very important aspect of learning.

OK so on a side note, the goats have progressively become more active since their shots (2 days). When I went out to milk Dot this am, her bag was hard (firm) and full. After the initial over filling issues were done with, her udder would typically be "loose"/not tight when I would wash it and after that she would let her milk down as I dried her. I was getting anywhere from a quart to a quart and 1/2 at each milking. This morning she gave me 1/2 gallon and that was right at 12 hours. Anecdotal proof perhaps that the worming had an effect on milk production? I now have almost 2 gallons of goat milk in the fridge and I am now at the point where the milk all came from after the shot was administered. So I can't drink any until I verify milk withdrawal time. CC was 8 weeks old yesterday, so 2 months in to lactation... Mel has enjoyed his fresh & chilled goats milk... Guess he'll get to enjoy it more. Maybe the dewormer will work on him through the milk?

Hey Bruce, no on the mail order sleep apnea device... At the end of the ad I noticed in small print it says RX (required?)... I take that to mean you need a prescription to get it. That particular issue always seems to slip my mind anyway as there are generally bigger fires to put out. I'm of the opinion that when my time is up, it's up. There are worse ways to go than going in my sleep. I hope I'm that lucky.

 

[Goat Whisperer]

asked for a shot as preferable over an oral application, as I can do a shot by myself. I don't think I'd be able to control the adult goats & manipulate the head/neck & mouth to try and do an oral application. I've never tubed an animal either and am concerned I'd get the lungs instead of the rumen... my luck tends in that direction altogether too often. Maybe I'll ask the vet/tech to teach me that while I'm there with them.

Giving oral meds IMO is far easier than giving shots- especially when you are alone and dealing with wild/flighty goats.
It's really not that difficult. One arm to put the goat in a head lock and the other hand to shove the syringe in the mouth… very simple.

I'm 5' 5" and 100#. Not a lot of "body capacity" here but I've still never had a problem doing it, by myself. I learned on some extremely wild, huge, horned meat goats. It's very simple. You aren't sticking a tube down their throats either.

I was just recently teaching a newbie how to properly drench. I drenched the actual meds and let them follow up with a syringe of water. Good thing too cause the goat spit out most of the water LOL but after a few goats the person was finally able to do it.
Like you said, have the vets show you- but I can assure you it's incredibly simple- even with wild or flighty goats.

And yes, you are right they will increase production after deworming if they had a high load. The parasites are sucking the blood outta em after all!

So are you doing anything with the milk yet? Cheese?

 

[Bruce]

Maybe the state owns stock in the rabies pharma company...

I wonder if enough people with FACTUAL documentation that a 3 year vaccine works for 3 years and doing it every year adds NO protection whatsoever could take said documentation to their state reps and get it changed??

Re fleas: I've been told that dog and cat fleas aren't the same as those carried by mice and such. Could be the reason you have not seen any fleas is because there are no flea ridden dogs and cats coming through your property?

Re apnea: Always the small print eh? Guess they don't want anyone who "self diagnosed" to sue them if it doesn't work. I don't think people die from it. At least not in their sleep, your autonomic systems kick you to start breathing again. But that CO2 buildup night after night can't be good for long term health. Sure isn't good for waking up without a CO2 headache.

 

[greybeard]

Good thing too cause the goat spit out most of the water LOL b

Brings back bad memories...
Long ago, back in the dark ages, when Moby Dick was a minnow and Captain Ahab was a Seaman Apprentice, drenching was the only way we dewormed cattle. The old stainless drench guns looked just like this:

That old green slimy medication must have tasted as bad as it smelled. Put 'em in the headgate, pull their head up and stick the nozzle in the back of their mouth and push the plunger down, and as soon as you let go of their heads, they started spitting and slinging it all over you if you stood too close. I think at times, I ended up with more on me than they got in their throats.

The parasites are sucking the blood outta em after all!

In cattle, that's why injectables work so much better. Right into the bloodstream and the bloodsuckers start dying right away.

 

[babsbag]

I agree with @Goat Whisperer , it is easy to drench a goat once you catch them. I just aim for their left cheek pocket and go sideways, not straight down the throat. For Ivermectin it is only 1 cc for 40-50 lbs so usually 2.5 cc, not a lot. Now giving them a copper bolus...that's another story.

 

[Devonviolet]

I'm of the opinion that when my time is up, it's up. There are worse ways to go than going in my sleep. I hope I'm that lucky.

As a nurse, Sleep Apnea is a hot button issue for me! As part of my Continuing Education requirement, for my job at Mayo Clinic, I did research into Sleep Apnea. I was blown away by how few doctors (including one that I worked under in the Area Internal Medicine Clinic, where I worked at Mayo), totally misunderstand it and the far reaching systemic effects of it!

Sleep Apnea doesn't just put you at risk of dying in your sleep. It weakens your heart, raises your heart rate and blood pressure and decreases the blood perfusion to all your major organs, causes fatigue & compromises cognitive function.

I was diagnosed with Sleep Apnea, when I was recovering from my knee replacement. During the night a nursing assistant noticed that my oxygen saturation was 82% (should be no lower than 92%!) I was put on O2 at night until I could have a sleep study done. Except when I went to the rehab hospital, the doc there said I didn't need it, even though I still had low (O2) at night. I had to argue with him to get an order to go home with oxygen until I could get the sleep study done.

I ended up calling my surgeon & HE ordered it. The Rehab doc was pissed at me for going over his head. I mean he GLOWERED at me when they wheeled me to the car, when I left the hospital.

The sleep study proved that my apnea was bad & I use a CPAP (Continuous Positive Air Pressure) machine at night. It makes a huge difference in my energy levels & cognitive function during the day!

I would highly recommend you make it top priority to request a sleep study, to see if you need a CPAP at night. And if you already had a sleep study, get a CPAP and USE IT!!!

 

[Bruce]

CPAP

I woke up more often when it pulled off my face than I ever did from the apnea, couple of times per hour on average. Didn't wake up with the CO2 headache but was just as tired in the morning as I was when I didn't have the CPAP. Then there is the added humidifier. Inconvenient at best and they are only as portable as your 110V connection.

Skipped the option to rip out body parts in HOPES it would help (I'm not overweight so unlikely) and went for the oral appliance. If it doesn't work you haven't lost any body parts that don't regenerate. Travels in a retainer case, not a carryon bag.

And if you already had a sleep study, get an oral device and USE IT!!!

 

[Devonviolet]

CPAP

I woke up more often when it pulled off my face than I ever did from the apnea, couple of times per hour on average. Didn't wake up with the CO2 headache but was just as tired in the morning as I was when I didn't have the CPAP. Then there is the added humidifier. Inconvenient at best and they are only as portable as your 110V connection.

Skipped the option to rip out body parts in HOPES it would help (I'm not overweight so unlikely) and went for the oral appliance. If it doesn't work you haven't lost any body parts that don't regenerate. Travels in a retainer case, not a carryon bag.

And if you already had a sleep study, get an oral device and USE IT!!!

Not everyone can use a CPAP. My DH is one of those. No matter what he does, he swallows air & ends up with a distended (painful) stomach in the morning.

He has lost 100 pounds since retiring in 2013, and now doesn't have a problem with apnea. So, he stopped using his CPAP.

I've tried the appliances & they don't work for me.

I could lose some weight. But in looking back to my 20's when I was slender, I had apnea back then, and didn't know it. I snore differently than most. So, my apnea is not weight related and I will always wear a CPAP.