Livestock Guardian Dogs?? Should I get one? (more pics)

[dianneS]

I do think he has what it takes to be a LGD. I never dreamed I'd be so impressed. I thought it would take years for me to trust him, or be impressed by his work ethic! He had me convinced that I made the right decision within the first 12 hours he was on my property!

Your Ivan is beautiful btw! I did some reading on the Sarplaninac, they sound like awesome dogs! They seem to be as rare as the Karakachan. I feel so honored to own such a rare breed.

I emailed the breeder I got Alex from today and sent her pics to let her know how happy I am with him. I was apprehensive at first and she knew that, but she assured me that I'd be pleased with him.

I wish I would have gotten a photo of my dog's Daddy! He was huge, and just an awesome dog. He was the same rare shade of red as my boy. I hope my guy gets just a big some day! Head as big as a bears!

 

[Reality Check]

Personally...and this is just me, but...personally, I think that's got A LOT to do with how cheap and indescriminantly bred Pyrs in this area are these days. I wouldn't own a Pyr, frankly.. But, again, just personal opinion..

According to this USDA study, 50% of the repondents thought that your breed of dog was a liability, where as only 6% thought a Great Pyrenees was a liability. Furthermore, 71% thought the Great Pyrenees was an effective LGD, where as only 40% thought a Sarplaninac (Shar) was an effective LGD.

These statistics don't match your biased opinion. Is this your first LGD?

 

[ksalvagno]

Obviously a good guardian dog depends on the instincts of the dog as well as the training. There may be some breeds that generally or statistically are better than others but obviously it comes down to personal choice and what works best for you personally.

I choose not to have a guardian dog because my alpaca herd is constantly changing and I feel that a dog wouldn't adjust to the changing herd so I choose to have guard llamas. Once again, personal choice for my particular situation.

 

[dianneS]

Exactly. Some breeds may work for some people and some situations where other's may not, regardless of the statistics. That's why I was so apprehensive about a dog at first. No matter what the statistics are that a particular breed may or may not be a good guardian, there is still no 100% guarantee that it will work out. You just never know.

So far, and I mean so far, my dog is working out well. But you never know what could happen some day in the future, but so far so good. His previous guardian situation was very similar to our set up, and he seems like an appropriate personality for us too. He's just a good fit all around.

 

[Reality Check]

Obviously a good guardian dog depends on the instincts of the dog as well as the training. There may be some breeds that generally or statistically are better than others but obviously it comes down to personal choice and what works best for you personally.

The full report is here.

I just had to do it. This reminded me of a guy on BYC that was bashing Great Pyrenees dogs for not being pure white, and having badger markings instead. To him, this indicated that the purity of the breed had been compromised.

The report is good in that it clearly shows that there is no perfect dog. However, what is truly funny is that the report shows that the Sarplaninac (Shar) is least likely to stay with the herd, and more likely to injure people. Maybe that is why they are not too popular in the US, for good reason.

 

[dianneS]

Aww, I wish that report had Karakachans listed.

I did read this about the Karakachan breed: Since 1998 there have been altogether three cases of successful predator attacks in the flocks provided with dogs for this project. In one big flock of 650 sheep, four had been killed, but this was due to the shepherds dividing the flock in half during grazing and one half had been left without dogs. The Karakachan Dog is strictly territorial. It accepts the flock as its territory,

If half the flock was left without dogs thanks to the shepherds, I would think that those attacks don't count!

I'm so glad that the Karakachan dog association won't register dogs that are not WORKING livestock guardians and they don't allow breeding of dogs that are not currently working as guardians. That is awesome! No breeding specifically for pets and keeping them working helps with the passing on of guardian instincts. Some people are breeding Karakachans with Great Pyrs and they seem to be working out well. The Great Pyr half makes them more personable and friendly with people, I'm told.

A "dog show" person was recently trying to educate me on guardian dogs. She was clueless only knowing AKC rules and standards and such that certainly don't apply to a guardian dog, let alone a breed that isn't even recognized by the AKC. She needs to keep her "show ring" business to herself !

 

[Reality Check]

Aww, I wish that report had Karakachans listed.

I saw it briefly mentioned here:

http://www.canids.org/occasionalpapers/livestockguardingdog.pdf

 

[Roll farms]

The only gripe I have w/ Pyrs is the coat.
I haven't had any of the 'issues' listed here...ours are wonderful LGD's.
I didn't "train" them, just kept an eye on them and corrected any unwanted puppy behavior.
Razor and Edge are always with me in the pasture (unless they see a 'threat'....like a rogue squirrel or some such...), loving, and they are ALWAYS on the job.
What amazes me is one (usually Razor) runs AT the 'threat' while the other goes and stands in front of the herd.....how do they know to do that? (I know it's instinct, but it's still an absolutely beautiful thing to watch....)
My point here, is...there are some goats I wouldn't own, either...doesn't make them "bad" goats, just not what I want. Stereotyping animals is as risky as stereotyping people...there will always be some that don't fit the "mold" you try to put them in.

 

[dianneS]

That's so cool that one dog stays with the herd while the other goes after the threat! Is it always the same dog who stays while the other goes, or do they switch roles?

I was told that Karakachans work best in pairs too, but I just don't have enough animals or enough space to warrant having two.

My guy typically stays with the herd when he's suspicious of something. I haven't really seen him "go after" anything yet.

I am currently rotating pastures and I have the horses in with the goats for the first time ever. I couldn't have my miniature horse with the goats prior to the dogs arrival, due to the fact that the mini horse would chase and torment the goats. Now that the goats have the dog, the dog won't allow that bad little horse to chase his goats! Every now and then Alex goes up to the little horse and just barks at him like he's telling him "I know what you're thinking and don't you get any ideas about chasing my goats!" Its really funny, but everyone is grazing peacefully together now.

 

[dianneS]

OMG. I regret to announce that my LGD that has been doing such an amazing job, just killed a chicken today.

He is still a pup, but I don't think he played with this chicken to death (or maybe he did, I'm not sure). He killed my only Polish Crested banty, and she can't see where she is going due to her bangs in her eyes all the time. She walks into doors, she walks into me, she was really ditzy. So he could have started playing with her and if she couldn't see where she was going, perhaps she couldn't get away when the play got to rough.

Or perhaps not... She wasn't just killed, he ate her. He took her from the pasture (where I found the first batch of feathers) and carried her into his crate (where his food dish is) in the goat pen and ate every last bit of her.

I never intended for this dog to be a "chicken dog" I didn't expect him to bond with the chickens, he's more bonded with the goats. I just wanted him to deter predators in general from coming on the property, and so far, he's doing that.

The chickens rarely go in the pen with the dog, but he can see them on the other side of the fence. He rarely pays any attention to chickens at all and I've never even seen him chase one. I'm not all that concerned that its going to happen frequently, that particular chicken was just and easy target I think.

I just don't understand why he ate her? I don't want him to start thinking of other living things as food? There was nothing left of the chicken, so I couldn't tie her to his collar for a week to teach him a lesson. I'm not sure how to handle this, but I'm not terribly concerned, I guess I'll just have to keep a closer eye on him and maybe expose him to more chickens in a controlled situation.