Nutrition and condition discussion

[TheMixedBag]

Nix on the improvement. I didn't milk her this morning, Barclay made sure I didn't have to, but when she first gets up in the morning she just looks awful. I mean horrible.

Of course, by afternoon she looks a bit better, but still. She's going to the vet tomorrow, we're getting a fecal done and see if there isn't something else. She was wormed with Ivomec Plus a week and a half ago, and bolused about 3-4 days ago (thank you again so much!), but her breeder thinks she may have barberpole worms, something Ivomec won't get. Her temp is normal (100.4), for whatever that's worth.

I wish I had better pictures, but she wanted the hay, no ifs ands or buts.

 

[SDGsoap&dairy]

Nix on the improvement. I didn't milk her this morning, Barclay made sure I didn't have to, but when she first gets up in the morning she just looks awful. I mean horrible.

Of course, by afternoon she looks a bit better, but still.

You're not going to see a difference in her actual condition in an afternoon. You may see a difference in how her rumen is filled out (maybe hollow in the morning and a hay belly by evening) but her rumen is not an indication of condition. A goat with a BCS of 1 could have a full, rounded looking hay belly and a goat with a BCS of 4 can be sunken in behind the ribs. While you may see a difference in the appearance of the doe because of the fullness of the rumen, you're not going to see a notable difference in CONDITION in a single day.

It's important to keep in mind that you're fighting an uphill battle. We've discussed earlier in this thread how difficult it is to put weight on a doe in early lactation. Putting weight on any goat (lactating, dry, open, bred) takes consistency and TIME. Goats lose weight quickly and tend to put it back on much more slowly. It's made MUCH more difficult by the demands milk production puts on the doe.

It's great you're getting the fecal, it'll confirm or rule out parasites definitively.

 

[TheMixedBag]

Oh I know it's not an indication of her condition, she just *looks* better.

However, I did re-weigh her with the measuring tape method, and according to that, she's gained 10 lb. She was about 33 inches around, now she's between 34-35 inches (this is at the heart girth, not somewhere a hay belly could affect).

 

[SDGsoap&dairy]

Nix on the improvement. I didn't milk her this morning, Barclay made sure I didn't have to, but when she first gets up in the morning she just looks awful. I mean horrible.

I did re-weigh her with the measuring tape method, and according to that, she's gained 10 lb. She was about 33 inches around, now she's between 34-35 inches (this is at the heart girth, not somewhere a hay belly could affect).

Help me out MixedBag, I'm a little confused... Are you saying she looked awful/horrible this morning but THEN you weighed her and she had gained 10 lbs? My does tend to look pretty hollow in the couple weeks after kidding, even if they're in good condition. It would make sense that she's looking a little hollow right now even while she's fleshing out, but that wouldn't "nix the improvement." It's over the spine and hips that's I'd really be using as a gauge.

 

[20kidsonhill]

I can get either one I am sure I will have to wait till tomorrow though.
She is banging her head on the alfalfa right now she is really tearing into it.

I felt like something must be missing from her diet but wasn't sure what. She does free range of course she feeds all day on brush and other things but maybe it isn't what she wants like how humans crave certain things, of course I am just guessing here but not certain goats crave while pregnant like humans do.

what about a goat specific protein tub? She might enjoy something like that.

Im not sure what you mean, do you mean a special feeder only for her filled with protein?

I can do that if thats what you mean

No they actually make protein tubs you buy in the store to put out with livestock, the newest thing is goat protein tubs, they come in a black tub like container, you buy them at the feed store, Our Farm choice carries them.
Like this:
http://www.feedinadrum.com/GOAT20N.html
http://www.hubbardfeeds.com/specialty/ProdInfo/Easylix16GoatBlock.aspx?menu=Goats

This is a block:
http://www.hubbardfeeds.com/specialty/ProdInfo/Easylix16GoatBlock.aspx?menu=Goats


I will be adding something like this to this summers feeding program when my does are only on pasture.

I am still researching the brand that I will choose.

Can't be a cattle tub, because of Urea used in them. Urea is toxic to goats.

 

[TheMixedBag]

Nix on the improvement. I didn't milk her this morning, Barclay made sure I didn't have to, but when she first gets up in the morning she just looks awful. I mean horrible.

I did re-weigh her with the measuring tape method, and according to that, she's gained 10 lb. She was about 33 inches around, now she's between 34-35 inches (this is at the heart girth, not somewhere a hay belly could affect).

Help me out MixedBag, I'm a little confused... Are you saying she looked awful/horrible this morning but THEN you weighed her and she had gained 10 lbs? My does tend to look pretty hollow in the couple weeks after kidding, even if they're in good condition. It would make sense that she's looking a little hollow right now even while she's fleshing out, but that wouldn't "nix the improvement." It's over the spine and hips that's I'd really be using as a gauge.

Now I'm confused

Yes, she did look pretty bad this morning, even the spinal processes were visible on the sides, though the dorsals are still even across the top. her ribs were clearly visible, and all 3 points of her hip were visible, which can still be seen in the photo.
I weighed her with the tape measure about noonish, where she measured out to 34+ inches.

However, even between the dorsal and transverse (i think, it's been forever since I took biomed classes) processes, and the hip points, I am starting to feel a bit of fat, rather than any kind of bone, which is still worrisome, but a *little* bit better than before. I picked up a 20% protein block, we'll see if that doesn't help some.

Talala at least is still in good condition and is finally back on feed.

 

[20kidsonhill]

I haven't taken the time to read everything on the thread, but I would like to suggest worming her with:

Equimax horse paste wormer, it is ivermectin and praziquantel. The praziquantel removes the head and segments of tapeworms, where wormers like safegaurd and valbazene only remove the segments. I don't think this will magically solve the problem, but we saw some drastic improvements with a couple of our does last summer, that weren't putting weight back on after weaning.

We used 3x the dose recommended for a horse.

 

[helmstead]

Here's an over-conditioned dairy buck

And a 'just right' dairy buck (telling me how mean I am for bathing him)

 

[SDGsoap&dairy]

I see the prettiest mug there in the background!!! Awww, boy do I miss that face.

 

[helmstead]

I see the prettiest mug there in the background!!! Awww, boy do I miss that face.

And our whole family is SO glad to have her back! She and Chippy are in wub, too, she's a happy girl.