Nutrition and condition discussion

[ohiogoatgirl]

i have two saanens that are both bred and due about may 18. but they look skinny to me. not terrible starvation skinny just skinnier then i would like. i have been comparing them now to pics of them in the summer before they were bred. you can tell they have a baby bump but other then that they are the same basically. but i havent upped their feed (i was feeding a little more then what i read because i thought they were skinny so i only upped their feed about a palm full since breeding). should i add something to their feed or feed more???
i've been thinking i want to add b.o.s.s. but i wasnt sure how much to add.

also i want to add things i grow to their mixed feed (amaranth, quinoa, carrots, turnips, parsnips, mangels, beets, etc.) and i'm not sure how to add that either...

thanks!

 

[ksalvagno]

I think one of the best investments I made was a livestock scale. You would be surprised what your animal really weighs. I weigh my animals on a regular basis so I can make sure I'm dosing wormers/medications correctly and it definitely helps with keeping up with overall body condition. Getting your hands on the animal is also important.

I had purchased an Alpine in milk from Craigslist. While I didn't have much experience with goat condition, I knew she was way too thin and she was looking like the girls on that website link. She was only 95 lbs and from what I could find on the internet, an Alpine should weigh at least 125 lbs. She is now 135 lbs and I still think she looks thin but definitely nothing like she was before. But she is a heavy milker and it is really hard to keep up her weight. But she basically gets as much grain as she can eat on the milkstand and I even let her keep eating after I'm done milking while I'm collecting things and getting ready to go back inside. Also I have alfalfa/grass mix hay.

 

[freemotion]

i've been thinking i want to add b.o.s.s. but i wasnt sure how much to add.

also i want to add things i grow to their mixed feed (amaranth, quinoa, carrots, turnips, parsnips, mangels, beets, etc.) and i'm not sure how to add that either...

thanks!

Most people add about a half cup of BOSS per feeding to a full-size goat.

The seeds, add to your grain mix. I'd sprout them, personally, but I am big on sprouting.

The root veggies....chop 'em up into small pieces, either with a knife or a food processor slicing blade. Start with about a cup per feeding if they are getting only hay, maybe double that if they are on pasture and are used to "live" foods. Then up it every few days and watch their poo for clumpiness. Back off at the first sign of clumpy poo. You may increase it again after a week or so if it is a very thin goat needing a big boost, just watch that poo. I got a doe that resembled TheMixedBag's Saanen into good condition while preggers and she continued to improve in spite of a generous lactation. She is on her third pregnancy here, without a break, and is very difficult to dry off. The fresh foods are a lot more work but make a huge difference. When I have lots to feed, I chop a bucketful before bed every other night and put it in the spare fridge for two days of feeding.

 

[SDGsoap&dairy]

She's getting 2 scoops of grain (which she really doesn't like...), 2 scoops of dry beet pulp, canola oil and mineral. The scoops are the 4-quart horse scoops, and it's usually gone by the end of the day.

That is an enormous amount of grain... That's 32 cups of grain per day if it's a 4 quart or 24 cups per day if it's a 3 quart. When I was trying to maintain our nubian's condition at lactation she was eating around 7-8 dry measuring cups of grain per day. And that was pushing her, any more than that and she'd end up with clumpy/dog log poop.

Just to give us all a range of grain intake, what is everyone feeding their late gestation/early lactation does in either lbs or dry measuring cups?

 

[TheMixedBag]

I (finally) found the actual size of the scoop-it's either a 2 quart scoop or a 1 quart, I'm not 100% sure.

And, I've basically just said screw it. She's not going to get better than this, so once she's dry, she's done. I may give her back and let them breed her if they wish, but I'm sure as heck not going to again.

 

[freemotion]

If it is a one quart, that is what my rescued skinny doe got 2x a day, along with ALL the other things, veggies, brush, pasture, alfalfa, beet pulp, BOSS, and the grain was sprouted, dramatically increasing its food value.

 

[SDGsoap&dairy]

And, I've basically just said screw it. She's not going to get better than this, so once she's dry, she's done. I may give her back and let them breed her if they wish, but I'm sure as heck not going to again.

She may surprise you if she has some time off to flesh out. You mentioned she did fine until she was 3 months bred and that she did have a heavy worm load. She looks like she has a ton of potential... Maybe with some time to gain as a dry/open doe you can hit that 3 month mark with her being a little over conditioned. That extra padding should get her through late gestation so that she kids at her ideal weight and you aren't fighting an uphill battle through early lactation.

Don't give up on her yet... I would REALLY want to give her a full year to see what she's capable of before moving on. Worst case scenario, even if she proves just to be an unthrifty doe and you sell her after another kidding/lactation, I think that there would be value in the practical experience with nutrition management.

 

[TheMixedBag]

So basically I've been starving her then? Honestly, I'm lucky if she does finish it by night. She was herd queen, too, so it's not like she was pushed away from it.

 

[Ariel301]

I'm dealing with one of those walking skeletons. Gracee's a LaMancha doe, 7 years old. I bought her two years ago at a commercial goat dairy. She was really thin and had a rough, matted coat when I got her, and also bad back feet. I think she broke one hind foot at one time, it is sort of deformed now and she limps on it. Lately she seem stiff in the other leg too.

I got a little weight on her last year when I stopped milking her early, but it came back off again. She milks well, about a gallon a day. She is nearly impossible to dry off, I quit milking her for a month and there was still milk in her udder. I emptied it, and she filled it back up again. She kidded two bucklings the first of February who are nearly weaned now. They are huge and fat. I can see every bone in her body but she's still milking great.

Right now she's in her own pen with all the alfalfa she can eat, plus a big tub of alfalfa pellets, all she can eat. I give her another tub of brewer's grain, all she can eat. She eats a generous portion of all three. I also give her grain on the milkstand, twice a day, all she can eat in 20 minutes each time. (She's taking about four pounds a day) It's a mix of sprouted organic grains and alfalfa pellets, top dressed with minerals, a half cup of calf manna, and a half cup of corn oil. On a diet like that, she ought to be FAT. But she's not. She's not gaining anything, even when dry and not bred on that same diet, she doesn't get more than maybe a 1.5 body condition score. She's also always pretty pale in the eyelids compared to a FAMACHA chart, but consistently has a clean fecal exam, no teeth problems, and tested CAE negative. I can't find any reason why she would be anemic. I really don't know what more to do for this girl.

 

[Our7Wonders]

I'm curious - do the does that you guys have problems with get a copper bolus or a copper supplement of some kind beyond the regular loose mineral? I know copper isn't a cure all but I've heard people report that it helped put weight on hard keepers. And I've also heard that anemia can be tied to copper deficiency.

If you haven't already been giving them copasure it might be worth considering anyway.