Nutrition and condition discussion

[SDGsoap&dairy]

You're going to have a tough time getting any weight on her through early lactation. If it were me, I'd have her eating as much grain and alfalfa as she can handle without risking acidosis. She's going to continue to strip and she's already pretty darn lean. It can get wasteful, but if she were here I'd probably nix any grass hay altogether and feed her straight alfalfa free choice to maintain ratios and provide extra protein. I had a couple ffs who were looking a little lean a month or so in to lactation this year and just upping the grain, some extra BOSS, and really piling on the alfalfa has made a big difference. Just be sure to make the grain increase gradually and be mindful of your calciumhosphorous ratios.

A friend has been having great luck with conditioning with rice bran and pointed out that it doesn't interfere with Cah ratios. It's pricey, but with your doe's condition being what it is I'd really try not to let her lose weight.

 

[helmstead]

I would pull the kids and dry her off...then give her a good full year of conditioning feed and SEE if she improves.

I know it's harsh, but I wouldn't keep a doe that looked like that in milk...nor use her as breeding stock unless I were able to get her back into good flesh.

 

[TheMixedBag]

I really can't afford to bottle the kids (a gallon of goat's milk is like $9 around here, and I'm not about to use milk replacer), and you also can't forget-she's been like this her whole life. Yes, she's been fatter, but while she was milking last year she looked like this too.

However, I have been playing with the idea of drying her off once the kids are weaned, I'm just hoping there's something I can do without drying her off. She has gained a few pounds since I upped her feed ration, so at the very least what I'm feeding is maintaining her weight.

 

[freemotion]

Do you have anything green and growing there yet? Nothing like real, live food to put weight on grazing animals and a shine on their coats. If you don't have anything in her pen, you can cut and bring it too her. I hang bundles of branches in the stall for anyone who needs a boost, it makes a HUGE difference. Just know what is edible and what is poisonous in your area. A hungry goat will eat poisonous stuff like wild azalea. Actually, a fat goat will eat azalea. :/

Oh, and you can feed the kids whole cow's milk from the store, especially if you can get it on sale and freeze it.

 

[TheMixedBag]

There's some, and she is grazing on it, just not much. Our bushes are starting to come in, but I don't like her eating much of it, it tends not to grow back all summer...

If I have to (meaning, she starts losing weight instead of gaining), I can see about leasing a doe to continue feeding the doeling. But, so long as she's maintaining, I'm going to have to keep her in milk, for my sanity and wallet's sake.

 

[freemotion]

You can probably go off your property to get stuff. I trim the edges of the xmas tree farm next to me while walking the dogs. With permission. Who doesn't want someone to trim back their brush and weeds? I get lots of goldenrod, birch, poplar, maple, grapevines, etc. I carry some twine or better yet, a few small ball bungees to bundle the stems. I have a screw-eye in the stall with a clip and I just clip the bundles there, takes mere seconds. They love to eat standing on their hind legs, so if your walls are slippery plywood or such, put a couple of small horizontal boards screwed into the wall so she can get purchase with her front feet when reaching for the higher branches.

I can't stress enough how big a difference this can make. As long as she is worked up to it, you can't overdo the amounts of natural forages like you can with grain.

 

[SDGsoap&dairy]

I meant to add- they're also getting calf manna in addition to the 16% dairy ration, BOSS, and alfalfa. The calf manna makes a difference.

I know it's harsh, but I wouldn't keep a doe that looked like that in milk...nor use her as breeding stock unless I were able to get her back into good flesh.

... you also can't forget- she's been like this her whole life... while she was milking last year she looked like this too.

I do have to agree with Kate about this... if I had a doe who I couldn't keep in condition I wouldn't use her in our breeding program. Your girl has a FANTASTIC udder, there is no doubt about that MixedBag. But for us, if a doe can't produce babies and milk AND keep herself in decent condition (with proper nutrition) I just don't see a place for them here.

I think the only caveat to that would be, if I ended up with a doe permanently damaged from cocci as a kid (or something environmental, not genetic) and the genetics were important to me I'd breed her, kid her out, then dry her off immediately and give her a break long enough between breedings to put the proper weight back on.

If it were me I would also be thinking about drying her off and giving her some time to see just what she's capable of, start to finish. The biggest reason is that it's so tough to do anything about condition in early lactation except work to maintain weight. That's why we like ours well conditioned before late gestation.

I think if you consider the added cost of feeding her just to maintain her weight through even 2 months of lactation it would probably offset the cost of cow's milk from the grocery store. The trouble we ran into with our Nubian was that because she was under conditioned at kidding I couldn't possibly get enough grain into her to maintain her weight without causing acidosis. I know this because I DID give her a mild case and had to back off. You're going to have to pour the feed into her and the supplements that will be necessary to keep her from stripping condition (like calf manna, rice bran) are expensive.

Maybe you can split the difference and pull them and bottle feed with her milk. Then, if a month into it you can see she's not doing well you have the option to dry her off.

 

[TheMixedBag]

I guess maybe I'm not as concerned about it because even her breeder isn't. She said she's a little underconditioned, but not anything that's particularly dangerous.

Then again, she's where I got my opinions about dairy goats and conditioning, so there you go. I can try to get the calf manna, but for now, the doeling is eating way too much for me to be able to afford cow's milk. I'm lucky if I have money between paychecks, and when we do have it, it's usually not able to go on anything but gas.

Finally, she was actually in pretty good condition before being bred and up to about the 3rd month of pregnancy. Then, she just decided that even though I was feeding better stuff, she was going to drop her condition, and she was overfed for the last month or so of pregnancy.

At any rate, for right now, with what I have, what can I increase/decrease to help her maintain/gain? And does Calf Manna equine work? Neither Atwoods nor the mill carry it, and TSC only has the stuff for horses.

 

[Our7Wonders]

My bag of calf manna has a listing for everything from chickens on up to cows - and everything in between. Is there a separate one for horses? I'm guessing it's all the same thing.

 

[Our7Wonders]

Ooops, forgot to mention, if you go to the manna pro website there is a $2.00 off coupon for the 50 pound bag of calf manna. There's also one there for $1.00 any other manna pro product. You can get calf manna in a 25 pound bag as well.