Oh, man... I'm hoping it's just **UPDATE 2** 2 are relapsing??

[Holachicka]

Ivomec may well be the best dewormer you'll have access to, and the rest (of the good ones) cost more.

Ivomec is also the best thing I've found for bugs / mites...the 7 dust will knock 'em off, but they'll come right back unless you dust them daily. Ivomec kills them when they bite.

Without a fecal to *know* if it's worms or cocci, and w/ the added lice problem...well, I'd give 'em 1 cc per 25# of ivomec. Repeat in 7 days, then again in 14.
(Actually, if it was me, I'd probably dust them w/ 7 AND give 'em ivomec....creepy crawlies give me the willies.)

Probios, I give them a pinkie finger tip full 1x a day for 2-3 days...generally that'll get enough of the 'good' bugs into them to do the trick, if it's going to.

I'd be more concerned getting some B vitamin in them ASAP...corid works by inhibiting B vitamin absorption, which is what cocci feed off of. In their weak state, they need all the B they can get.

That's why I suggested DiMethox (sulmet) originally...it's not only an old-time cure for shipping fever, it ALSO treats cocci w/out messing up their vitamin absorption...and doesn't have to be injected. Just for future reference...

Also, this is JMHO, you should probably mix the corid stronger and drench them w/ it, rather than give them a lot of it in a weaker solution. It'll hit harder / faster and not take up so much tummy room meant for food.
I can't tell you the dosage (since I don't use it), maybe someone else here knows.

Is the dosage for the ivomec for the injectable? I just bought Ivermectin 1% sterile solution + 3 more syringes, What dosage for mL's should I use? I'll be doing this as soon as I get home. AND dusting, (they give me the creeps too, I took three showers yesterday!)

 

[cmjust0]

Ok, so...there are two schools of thought here w/ respect to using Ivomec for internal and external parasites..

What we know is that if you inject Ivomec, it does nothing for internal parasites (worms) but it will be effective against external parasites.

In order to treat for internal parasites, it's generally accepted that you use it orally -- draw it up out of the vial, remove the needle from the syringe, and squirt the contents of the syringe down their throats.

So that much, we know...which sorta makes it sound like an either/or situation. As in, you either inject it SQ for external parasites, or you use it orally for internal parasites, but neither way works for both.

That "either/or" is one of the two schools of thought.

The other school of thought is that Ivomec, given orally, will treat both internal parasites AND external parasites, and that you kinda get a "two-fer" deal out of it.

I've personally seen examples where people have dosed it orally to treat for mites, and it did nothing. Once injected, however, it worked.. That's with mites, though, and mites are considerably tougher little boogers than lice.

That said, I've also seen examples of goats who weren't necessarily considered candidates for lice who slicked WAY up after dosing orally with Ivomec...suggesting that maybe there was an unexpected "two-fer" effect that killed lice which hadn't even been considered.

Personally, I don't know which school of thought is correct.

In this situation, however...IF I WERE YOU...I'd use it orally. Reason being, you're dusting them, and we know dusting works against lice. Dusting may not necessarily be a good long-term solution, but the way I see it, you've kinda got the lice situation covered for now with the dust.

The question then becomes...which parasite is of greater clinical significance right now: lice, or worms?

Answer -- WORMS, hands down. Lice are gross, ya, but they're not NEARLY so pathogenic as worms.

Therefore, the best use of the Ivomec you now have on hand -- in my opinion -- is definitely to treat for the worms. If you dose it orally for worms and it also helps you out on the lice, fantastic...if not, oh well...you can always inject some of it later.

So, that's how I'm seeing it.

The deworming dosage I've been using for Ivomec 1% injectable is 1ml/25lbs of bodyweight, given orally.

If I were you, that's what I'd do.

 

[Roll farms]

Yep, what he said, dosage-wise.

And CM, I didn't take a sample in to tell me which creepy crawly it was, but when the goats here got leg mites last year, giving them ivo orally cleared it up. I've never injected 'em w/ ivomec...prolly the one thing I haven't done w/ it.

(I give it to my dogs for heartworm prev, my cats for ear mites (topically) and orally for worms, my ferret, my cavy, my poultry...etc.etc.)

 

[cmjust0]

when the goats here got leg mites last year, giving them ivo orally cleared it up. I've never injected 'em w/ ivomec...prolly the one thing I haven't done w/ it.

Hmm...well, that makes 1-for, 1-against in terms of what I've read on actual experience.

I dunno.

Either way, if I were the OP, I'd be giving it orally for sure in this situation.

 

[Holachicka]

Should I stop the other wormer if I am going to give the Ivo orally? Is it a one time dose, or do I give it to them for a few days? I dusted them last night, but I am concerned that they may be anemic because of the lice, would it be safe to give the ivo both orally and injected? If it's a good idea, does anyone know the dosage for injecting?

On a side note, the seller returned my phone call, left me a message, and I haven't had a chance to call her back yet, but at least I know she's not avoiding me!

 

[Roll farms]

I'd give them ivo orally and repeat in a week. If you've already dusted, it should take care of any 'stragglers'....and get rid of the worms, to boot.

The other wormer, safeguard, is really safe, and IMHO, ivo is too....so it won't hurt to give them ivo so soon after safeguard.

 

[cmjust0]

Should I stop the other wormer if I am going to give the Ivo orally?

We'll get to this in a minute...

Is it a one time dose, or do I give it to them for a few days?

Generally, Ivomec is a one time dose...for the most part.

Lots of folks will re-treat at a certain point past the initial dosage, and the interval really just depends on whom you ask...I've personally heard 10 days, 14 days, 15 days, 21 days, and 28 days. Like I said...just depends on who you ask.

But it's generally not considered a 'several days in a row' thing.

I dusted them last night, but I am concerned that they may be anemic because of the lice

What makes you suspicious that they're anemic?

would it be safe to give the ivo both orally and injected? If it's a good idea, does anyone know the dosage for injecting?

I've never heard of it done that way, but I've considered doing that very thing myself. I don't think it would hurt anything, but I dunno, and I can't advise you to go guinea piggin' on your goats with so little goat experience.

For now, I'd definitely recommend just sticking to the oral dosage.

OK, so...back to this:

Should I stop the other wormer if I am going to give the Ivo orally?

That kinda depends on how bad off the goats are right now, in terms of anemia.. You mentioned that you suspected anemia earlier, but thought it could be the lice; could be, but it's probably not. Most likely, it's a nematode called haemonchus contortus, a.k.a., "barberpole" worms. Given their VORACIOUS appetite for blood, barberpoles are -- by far -- the most pathogenic of all worms. Barberpoles will kill a goat dead if they're allowed to get out of control. And they're VERY, VERY, VERY common. Based on what I've read in numerous places, barberpoles generally account for 80%+ of the total worm burden in necropsied goats.

Now, here's where it gets tricky...

If your goats are just a bit anemic (inner lower eyelids obviously pink, but not dark pink or near-red), I'd personally recommend finishing up the third day of Safe Guard and then hitting them with Ivomec later. I might personally even give it a week or 10 days later in this case, provided their eyelids are pretty pink and don't get any more pale in the interval.

If their eyelids are obviously pink but the lice are still hanging around despite the dusting, I might finish the 3rd day of Safe Guard and do the Ivomec on day 4, just to rid them of the lice.

If their eyelids are just kinda vaguely pinkish, then I'd probably skip the last of the Safe Guard and do the ivomec right away.

If their eyelids are white or nearly white...well, that's where it gets REALLY tricky. Some folks will tell you to stay away from of Ivomec, Cydectin, Levasole, or any other 'stronger' dewormer for fear of killing a bunch of worms all at once and 'unplugging' a lot of holes in the abomasum.. The idea is that, with the blood already that thin, it's going to simply run out of those holes faster than the barberpoles would have sucked it out and the goat's going to get worse -- not better.

And that absolutely can happen.

The recommendation I've seen most often in cases where anemia is noted to that extent is to continue them on 'mild' dewormer (like Safe Guard) for a prolonged period of time, coupled with a product called Red Cell.. Red Cell contains a lot of iron (and selenium, and copper, and zinc, and all kinds of other minerals) and does a pretty good job at treating anemia. After a certain period of time on such a protocol (one week, 10 days, two weeks -- again, depends on who you ask...) THEN you use a stronger dewormer.

Having said that, there are a lot of people who will tell you -- straight up -- that when they're eyelids are almost white, you'd better knock the crap out of them with the strongest thing you've got and do it RIGHT NOW or they're dead, and that you really only need to worry about 'unplugging' too many holes when they've progressed to the point of bottlejaw.

Like I said...it can be a tricky situation, and it really all depends on how anemic they are at the moment according to how red/pink/white their eyelids are and whether or not they have any bottlejaw or anything like that.

Personally...I don't consider Ivomec to be so strong that I'd worry much about unplugging too many holes. In my situation, Ivomec -- while still relatively affective against barberpoles for me -- still isn't superduper effective. But that's me, and that's for my area and my herd...which is to say, my barberpoles.

Your barberpoles may be stouter -- or weaker -- than mine.

Maybe someone else will chime in here and say "do this/that/the other" and I'm usually not terribly shy about doing that myself, but...I dunno...this situation just seems especially subjective for some reason.. New goats, new goat owner/'doctorer', very little history on the animals, etc.

So, I've laid out what I feel are the most likely scenarios and what I'd do in each, and I'll leave it to you to decide..

On a side note, the seller returned my phone call, left me a message, and I haven't had a chance to call her back yet, but at least I know she's not avoiding me!

 

[ksalvagno]

I would say if you could talk to someone in your area. Either a goat knowledgable vet or a knowledgable goat breeder on what dewormers work in your particular area and at what dose.

Safeguard works in my area at 1cc per 10 pounds. May need to to use more or less in your area.

 

[Holachicka]

I gave them the ivomec orally yesterday, their eyelids were slightly pinkish, so I felt comfortable. I just figured with all the blood suckers they had on them that they were probably aneimic, and they were. But apparently this was from those nasty worms!

I can't thank you guys enough, you have literally been life savers, I don't know what I would have done without you! This morning, I went out and they are all looking so much better, and starting to put on some weight!! Hooray!!

EVEN BETTER I got ahold of the seller and she was so upset to know the goats I bought were sick. she is really concerned that her other goats are sick too, and I told her about all the treatments for different illnesses that I was treating. I told her about this site, and apologised for thinking poorly of her, she really is a good person! She is doing what she can to make things right for all of us!

 

[glenolam]

Glad to hear she's stepping up!