Parasite Management - OSU Seminars (Goats & Sheep) - F.D. notes pg10

[redtailgal]

x

 

[elevan]

Bliss is nice.

The fecal came back good on my boys. Vet said if I wasnt gonna keep them on a regular worming schedule then there was no point in worming them now. It's odd really, I have never wormed them. But then again, I havent had to worm a dog in over 5 years

After reading what was presented here, I definately have decided not to worm on a routine. However, since I am new to goats, I am going to have a fecal done about every 12 weeks for now. At least until I am more comfortable with the whole eyelid thing. I think its best anyway, if I can get a def on what type of parasite, I can treat it with the proper wormer.

I can get my fecals cheap (5$ shhhh dont tell) because I help the vet with some of his more complicated cases by providing in-home nursing care to injured critters, so it's an easy option for me.

I think this is an ok plan. What do you think? Would it work for my breeding does if I get them?

You can get fecals done for a third of what I have to pay!

I'd ask the vet if he knows where you can get FAMACHA training in your area...or ask your county extension agent.

I think fecals are an important part of the process, whether they are being done by a vet or by you on farm (if you have equipment and knowledge). Even if you're using the FAMACHA and the Five Point Check you're gonna need to do fecals every so often as verification that what you're doing is working.

 

[elevan]

Thought I'd share some additional info that I found on condensed tannins:

Proanthocyanidin (PA or PAC), also known as procyanidin, oligomeric proanthocyanidin (OPC), leukocyanidin, leucoanthocyanin and condensed tannins, is a class of flavanols. Proanthocyanidins are essentially polymer chains of flavonoids such as catechins.

Proanthocyanidins can be found in many plants, most notably apples (with some of the highest amounts found in the Red Delicious and Granny Smith varieties), pine bark, cinnamon, cocoa, grape seed, grape skin (procyanidins and prodelphinidins). However, bilberry, cranberry, black currant, green tea, black tea, and other plants also contain these flavonoids. The berries of chokeberry, specifically black chokeberry, have the highest measured concentrations of proanthocyanidin found in any plant to date.

So in addition to the plants already suggested you might be able to provide some of these as browse for your goats if you're implementing the condensed tannins into your plan.

 

[JusticeFamilyFarm]

Wow. Great info. Thank you so much for taking the time to post all of this so that we can all benefit.

 

[Ms. Research]

Thank you Elevan. I too appreciate the time it takes to do the research and then put out what you found.

I think it's interesting concept regarding the worms and becoming tolerant to the drugs being used to get rid of them. Anything will build up a tolerance. Just look at children and antibiotics. If medication is used wisely, like I've read in this informative thread, it will work. Preventive, if I'm understanding right, is not MORE medicine but testing and constant vigilance. And then applying the medication?

I've never truly raised livestock, but hoping someday I will. Knowing this information will help with "first hand" experience. And every farm is different and must be looked at and treated according to that farm, right? Learning what works best for you. No matter how well you want to make things, it's still TRIAL and ERROR.

 

[elevan]

Thank you Elevan. I too appreciate the time it takes to do the research and then put out what you found.

I think it's interesting concept regarding the worms and becoming tolerant to the drugs being used to get rid of them. Anything will build up a tolerance. Just look at children and antibiotics. If medication is used wisely, like I've read in this informative thread, it will work. Preventive, if I'm understanding right, is not MORE medicine but testing and constant vigilance. And then applying the medication?

I've never truly raised livestock, but hoping someday I will. Knowing this information will help with "first hand" experience. And every farm is different and must be looked at and treated according to that farm, right? Learning what works best for you. No matter how well you want to make things, it's still TRIAL and ERROR.

Yes, prevention is always the FIRST step of the battle. You cannot prevent worms with medication, but there are other ways to accomplish your objectives.

It is VERY important to realize that each farm has it's own "climate" so to speak. Let's say I abused dewormers on my property but my neighbor did not...I'd end up with resistant worms and the neighbor would still have drugs that work while they wouldn't for me. So it's extremely important to know what dewormers to use and when to use them.

Knowledge is power and yes, some knowledge comes from first hand experience and trial and error is part of that.

I wish you luck in your future endeavors into livestock

 

[freemotion]

Thought I'd share some additional info that I found on condensed tannins:

Proanthocyanidin (PA or PAC), also known as procyanidin, oligomeric proanthocyanidin (OPC), leukocyanidin, leucoanthocyanin and condensed tannins, is a class of flavanols. Proanthocyanidins are essentially polymer chains of flavonoids such as catechins.

Proanthocyanidins can be found in many plants, most notably apples (with some of the highest amounts found in the Red Delicious and Granny Smith varieties), pine bark, cinnamon, cocoa, grape seed, grape skin (procyanidins and prodelphinidins). However, bilberry, cranberry, black currant, green tea, black tea, and other plants also contain these flavonoids. The berries of chokeberry, specifically black chokeberry, have the highest measured concentrations of proanthocyanidin found in any plant to date.

So in addition to the plants already suggested you might be able to provide some of these as browse for your goats if you're implementing the condensed tannins into your plan.

I missed the original reference to condensed tannins.....where is this mentioned? Is it used daily in a preventative maintenance way or as an actual treatment?

These substances are part of my family supplement regimen and have made enormous changes in our health in various ways. So I am VERY curious to know what they have to do with wormy goats.....I'm thinking that a very healthy goat is not so susceptible to parasites.

 

[elevan]

Thought I'd share some additional info that I found on condensed tannins:

Proanthocyanidin (PA or PAC), also known as procyanidin, oligomeric proanthocyanidin (OPC), leukocyanidin, leucoanthocyanin and condensed tannins, is a class of flavanols. Proanthocyanidins are essentially polymer chains of flavonoids such as catechins.

Proanthocyanidins can be found in many plants, most notably apples (with some of the highest amounts found in the Red Delicious and Granny Smith varieties), pine bark, cinnamon, cocoa, grape seed, grape skin (procyanidins and prodelphinidins). However, bilberry, cranberry, black currant, green tea, black tea, and other plants also contain these flavonoids. The berries of chokeberry, specifically black chokeberry, have the highest measured concentrations of proanthocyanidin found in any plant to date.

So in addition to the plants already suggested you might be able to provide some of these as browse for your goats if you're implementing the condensed tannins into your plan.

I missed the original reference to condensed tannins.....where is this mentioned? Is it used daily in a preventative maintenance way or as an actual treatment?

These substances are part of my family supplement regimen and have made enormous changes in our health in various ways. So I am VERY curious to know what they have to do with wormy goats.....I'm thinking that a very healthy goat is not so susceptible to parasites.

From my notes in post #14:

Plants with anti-parasitic activity:
Have either a direct or indirect effect on parasites via secondary compounds such as condensed tannins and sesquiterpene lactones
Condensed tannins have the effect on mineral or protein status of the host. Which can get a by-pass protein effect increasing the protein that is actually available to the animals.
They also make the pasture less hospital to parasites
Examples:
sericea lespedeza
birdsfoot trefoil
forage chicory
sulla
sainfoin
(All of these definitely grow large enough to be considered browse for goats)

 

[Goatmasta]

Thank You

 

[freemotion]

Yes, thank you! Do you remember anything else about this....was there any more detail on these sentences:

Have either a direct or indirect effect on parasites via secondary compounds such as condensed tannins and sesquiterpene lactones
Condensed tannins have the effect on mineral or protein status of the host. Which can get a by-pass protein effect increasing the protein that is actually available to the animals.

I'm only familiar with the studies done with these substances in humans...the results are pretty amazing and QUICK. But I don't know of any studies done on humans that were wormy!