rachels.haven's Journal

[Baymule]

Amazing what no sleep can do for you.
I hope you have good results with the Tomorrow.

 

[farmerjan]

@rachels.haven ... if it is any consolation, I totally agree with you and disagree with the vet on the "no fever, no pneumonia". I have often found that calves will get a "touch" of pneumonia and have no fever.... I suspect pneumonia whenever there is something "not quite right" with an animal; especially in the fall with the changing weather...
Sorry that you had to go through with this... and although I am not a big one on "jumping on the antibiotic bandwagon" , I will give them a shot right off when they are off and have some other possible symptoms... Usually will use something like Nuflor, Baytril, Micotil, or even oxytet.... or a sulfa drug..... just to help stop it before it gets a good hold. If they perk up I will treat the symptoms of what ever else, but will usually follow up with a second dose. I hold back on Draxxin unless they are real bad real quick.
And, do not discount using Penicillin... it is often overlooked as an "old drug"... but unless they are milking, it is a good one to use on young animals and because it it seldom used nowadays, often will hit it quick... It has become my go to many times... drawback, is needing treatment daily... but a little goat would not be that bad and it does not hurt like oxytet will sting.... and if you have it in, then giving any extra doses is not a big deal.

 

[rachels.haven]

Me too. Milk testing might be worth it simply for a mastitis prevention/udder health measure. Milk quantity and components numbers are nice too. I have my doubts Adga will be awarding milk stars any time soon. But the record keeping is not Adga, thank goodness.

 

[rachels.haven]

And thank you, @farmerjan . I'll be doing that now as long as I can get the drugs. The goats will often throw around the white snots and hunchiness for a day or four and then recover. This one didn't, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was also the start of something and drugs would help and if they aren't strong enough it drags them under.

 

[purplequeenvt]

You can absolutely have pneumonia without a fever. I had a lamb a few years ago who had pneumonia repeatedly over his short life. Never had a fever, would just suddenly get super raspy and droopy.

 

[rachels.haven]

Soap making today. I made a peppermint, buttercream, and Christmas cookie scents. Ready in a month or so according to the recipe, just in time with a little leeway for Christmas. I might be done with goat milk soap for the season. Iris the mini is the only one in milk and she's only making about a quart per milking and the two year old is drinking all of it himself (turns out goat milk isn't constipating like cows milk, thank goodness, quite the opposite much like nursing milk, so I guess the question is, is he really, truly weaned?). I might try some soaps with plain water vs milk. I've got a soy/almond milk maker and I considered almond milk soap, but I've heard rumbles that it causes ricing and/or weeping. So far following the directions and rules has gotten me fairly good results. I should probably stick with rule following and just do a boring water soap if I want to use up any 3 year old fragrance oils that I just found this morning before milk (and chaos) season comes back.

 

[Ridgetop]

That was a very interesting talk. I was particularly interested in the 5 of cure with the Today (antibiotic during lactation) as opposed to almost 98% when using Tomorrow type long lasting antibiotic.

I used to treat all milkers with Tomorrow when we dried off the herd as a preventative measure. Very few indications of mastitis, and consistently low SCC on test during the following lactation year. Probably would be much more expensive now since you will have to get a prescription for Tomorrow after Jan 1. Also (in the interest of making more $$) the vet will probably refuse to give a prescription for Tomorrow without testing the milk. Then will only prescribe Tomorrow for any animals coming back positive, thus allowing any low infection to go the rounds of the herd when they all come fresh.

BTW, I buy and use tomorrow as an antibiotic for puncture wounds in my LGDs and other animals. Excellent stuff.

@rachels.haven ... if it is any consolation, I totally agree with you and disagree with the vet on the "no fever, no pneumonia". I have often found that calves will get a "touch" of pneumonia and have no fever.... I suspect pneumonia whenever there is something "not quite right" with an animal; especially in the fall with the changing weather...

Absolutely - I routinely suspect pneumonia when an animal goes off even without temperature - often animal has raspy lungs if you can hear them. You can order a cheap stethoscope from Jeffers.

And, do not discount using Penicillin... it is often overlooked as an "old drug"... but unless they are milking, it is a good one to use on young animals and because it it seldom used nowadays, often will hit it quick... It has become my go to many times... drawback, is needing treatment daily...

Penicillin is my first go-to drug for infection, or illness. Cheap and easy to use, although you have to remember to alternate sides for daily injections sites.

If it doesn't show anything else I'm afraid I'm going to disagree with my vet on the whole, "no fever, no pneumonia" idea.

Vets (and human doctors) get stuck on certain ideas - "No fever - No Illness" being one of them, along with only accepting the symptoms they recognize. When I had cancer and kept complaining about a lump that hurt, my GP said that "if there was pain it was not cancer". Turns out that there was pain because the cancer had invaded a nerve. Oncologist was not impressed by the GP, particular since by the time the GP agreed to send me for biopsy the cancer had gone to next stage.

Trust yourself with your animals. Nothing worse than a big vet bill (or dead animal) from something you could have cured with a dose of antibiotic.

 

[rachels.haven]

Well, Tomorrow is still $54ish at PBS animal health. I guess I should get some more before it's gone. I wish I knew if the expiration date would be far enough off to use at dry off. Dry off is always the time I get clinical mastitis in the does if I'm going to get it in the herd. I guess we could try using it year end to help my nerves calm about it. I still have today-two expired boxes and one good one. Darn expiration dates.

I wonder if I can get the vet to give me a drug specifically for pneumonia or if I'll have to use penicillin or oxytetricycline.

 

[Ridgetop]

Penicillin will work fine for pneumonia. If you have LA200 it is even better according to some people. I would start with Penicillin if that is what you have. They are 2 different drugs so you can start with Pen and switch to the other if you want. Unless you have a difficult pneumonia that is resistant to antibiotics (in which case the prognosis will be poor), no need to spend for a special pneumonia antibiotic that you will only use once or twice.

I wouldn't worry too much about the expiration dates on the Tomorrow and Today. If you are using Tomorrow as a preventive for mastitis on dos that have not had mastitis, use the expired ones as long as it isn't several years old. You can use current tubes on does that have had mastitis during their lactation or that freshen with mastitis. You will need to clear up any current cases before drying them off anyway which will mean using Today or a similar drug. I have some expired Tomorrow that I use on the dogs and sheep for exterior puncture wound antibiotic. It still works fine. The narrow, extended tip designed to go into the teat opening makes it perfect for inserting into puncture wounds to get the antibiotic all the way into the wound. Perfect for the Anatolians when they play too rough. Antibiotics retain curative power past their expiration dates for at least another year or so. They may become weaker, but that is all.

 

[farmerjan]

Well, Tomorrow is still $54ish at PBS animal health. I guess I should get some more before it's gone. I wish I knew if the expiration date would be far enough off to use at dry off. Dry off is always the time I get clinical mastitis in the does if I'm going to get it in the herd. I guess we could try using it year end to help my nerves calm about it. I still have today-two expired boxes and one good one. Darn expiration dates.

I wonder if I can get the vet to give me a drug specifically for pneumonia or if I'll have to use penicillin or oxytetricycline.

Unless you have had the today or tomorrow out in the heat, it will be good for several years past the expiration date. use the oldest first... and if in doubt, use 2 tubes... it won't hurt them.
Stick it in the fridge and it will keep for years and be fine to use. It is in a sealed tube so no air will get to it... in a paste like that the worst is the "oil" emulsion, separating out. Just make sure you warm it to room temp (overnight) before using it...