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- #31
Roll farms
Spot Master
I'm going to talk it over w/ the vet when I see him Monday....when I asked for the stuff (lut / dex) I knew they were coming but hadn't yet seen how awful they looked....
So upset - long story / pics - new pics / question pg. 4
- Thread starter Roll farms
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ksalvagno
Alpaca Master
My experience is with alpacas and I do use Estrumate. With the alpacas, they got 1cc, 3 times in a 24 hour period. I have to admit that I don't remember the times since it was about 4 years ago. We were timing it so it would coincide with the vet appointment as it was a scheduled C section. Also, I was involved in a llama rescue several years ago and they aborted several older females with Estrumate. For all of them, it went fine and there were no retained placentas or infections. If I recall correctly, a shot was given twice a day for 2 days but I could find out for sure. The alpacas that I have "aborted" were at the end of their pregnancy and there were problems and we needed to get the cria out. Estrumate was the only thing given.
I have Estrumate and have used it on the goats but only for newly pregnant (like 2 weeks). For the Nigerians, it is dosed at 1/2cc.
Sometimes you have to do what you have to do. You certainly have a good reason to abort these pregnancies, especially for Mandy. You could always have an ultrasound or xray done or have blood drawn and send to BioPryn before you do anything. Even the blood test results you could get back pretty quickly.
I have Estrumate and have used it on the goats but only for newly pregnant (like 2 weeks). For the Nigerians, it is dosed at 1/2cc.
Sometimes you have to do what you have to do. You certainly have a good reason to abort these pregnancies, especially for Mandy. You could always have an ultrasound or xray done or have blood drawn and send to BioPryn before you do anything. Even the blood test results you could get back pretty quickly.
currycomb
Overrun with beasties
sorry about your goats, no excuse for that. that said, my only experience is with luting mares to bring into heat. after doing a few on vets recommendation, i quit doing it. did not like the intense sweating and the mares just were miserable. i think they were having extreme "hot flashes", not fun i can tell you. if mandy is not too far along in the pregnancy, i would think you could get her up to snuf in time, and then pull the kids and bottle raise to take that strain off of her. guess the best thing to do would be the blood test to see if you have pregnant goats, then make the decision. (i have used alfalfa cubes and beet pulp, soaked for several hours in warm water. it makes a slop, but boy do the goats love it, and gain weight and shine, and without grain and the upsets it can cause. also might use rice bran. i have not with goats, but did with horses, made a thin horse bulk up pretty fast)
Emmetts Dairy
Loving the herd life
I would have to agree to chat with the vet before aborting them. I never had to abort...but I too have read some horror stories and was not thrilled about the thought of ever having to do that. Goats have an amazing way of bouncing back quickly from poor nutrition. I think they may suprise you...really. They are pretty hardy creatures as you know. I would probally hold off of using the lut / dex. But thats just my opinion. I would do the old stand bys...vitamin B, good grain, good quality hay and loose minerals. I always add goat balancer to the grain too...it helps alot when they need the extra nutrition. I personally would wait and see how their condition changes over the next few weeks. But thats me..you have a much better idea of what their condition is. Its hard to tell in pics.Roll farms said:
Im sorry this happened to you..and especially to them.
It make me mad that people can do this. I think he should just keep balen hay and stay away from raisin goats...he's obviously not good at it.I had a dairy goat get pregnant 6 mos after she delivered...it was obviously a fence jump...and I learned my fencing lesson then...she did great...but she was in great condition...which made a world of differance. I do know of some farmers that will breed a couple times a year. Personally...I like to wait and give them time...but its not impossible or a mandatory death sentence.
Good luck..you have alot to consider and some decisions to make. Hope it works out great for your girls..Im thrilled you got them back and have no doubt they will be in great condition soon enough!!!!
Mossy Stone Farm
Overrun with beasties
OMG......This just makes me sick.........
Good luck Kim on bringing your Girls back to health!!!!!!
Good luck Kim on bringing your Girls back to health!!!!!!
doxiemoxie
Loving the herd life
It is so hard not to just want to stuff them full of food! Be strong. Sometimes I keep out a portion of their grain to offer as hand fed treats just so I don't overfeed.
My experiences with lute are with horses and cows, mostly cows, and out of dozens of lutes to end misbreedings there was never a complication. That doesn't mean goats are the same or that those aren't very real risks. In your shoes I might want the vet to evaluate the animals before I luted them and then to treat them when he/she can be on call for complications. I think testing for preg before treating is a good idea. I suspect the dexamethasone is primarily to help with pain and inflammation, making it less likely they'll have complications. When you ask, please let us know.
And don't worry about Mandy, she'll come around soon. As she feels better she'll remember how good it is to be home and all the other stuff will become a vague memory.
My experiences with lute are with horses and cows, mostly cows, and out of dozens of lutes to end misbreedings there was never a complication. That doesn't mean goats are the same or that those aren't very real risks. In your shoes I might want the vet to evaluate the animals before I luted them and then to treat them when he/she can be on call for complications. I think testing for preg before treating is a good idea. I suspect the dexamethasone is primarily to help with pain and inflammation, making it less likely they'll have complications. When you ask, please let us know.
And don't worry about Mandy, she'll come around soon. As she feels better she'll remember how good it is to be home and all the other stuff will become a vague memory.
- Thread starter
- #37
Roll farms
Spot Master
Well, they're pooping dog logs, not sure if that's from the deworming, the grain reintroduction, or stress of the move.
Mandy came to me on purpose tonight *just* for a pet. Progress!
The boer doe isn't lead trained. She may be skinny, but that girl is STRONG, and she's wearing me out bringing her in 2x a day to eat. She's in the best shape but she's not willing to elbow her way into the feeder to eat, so I have to feed her seperately.
Mandy and Hannah are in one of the kidding stalls, let out 2x a day to exercise a bit. I'm honestly afraid that one good hit will break their ribs, since they're sticking out so far. They aren't finishing the 1 cup of grain they're up to each, when I go back to feed in the PM there's still some leftover. I honestly think their stomachs have shrunk so much they can't eat all of it, and the hay...and they prefer the hay.
I'm gonna talk to the vet tomorrow, see what he thinks.
Doxie - When the vet explained why I needed Dex as well as lute, he said that depending on how far along they are, that w/ out the dex, the lute alone might not be enough to induce a full abortion. Something about the CL (corpus luteum or whatever it is - what feeds a fetus before the placenta takes over) vs. placental development. Whatever it was, the dex is supposed to make sure *everything* is passed, not just the fetus alone, causing a retained placenta / uterine infection.
Mandy came to me on purpose tonight *just* for a pet. Progress!
The boer doe isn't lead trained. She may be skinny, but that girl is STRONG, and she's wearing me out bringing her in 2x a day to eat. She's in the best shape but she's not willing to elbow her way into the feeder to eat, so I have to feed her seperately.
Mandy and Hannah are in one of the kidding stalls, let out 2x a day to exercise a bit. I'm honestly afraid that one good hit will break their ribs, since they're sticking out so far. They aren't finishing the 1 cup of grain they're up to each, when I go back to feed in the PM there's still some leftover. I honestly think their stomachs have shrunk so much they can't eat all of it, and the hay...and they prefer the hay.
I'm gonna talk to the vet tomorrow, see what he thinks.
Doxie - When the vet explained why I needed Dex as well as lute, he said that depending on how far along they are, that w/ out the dex, the lute alone might not be enough to induce a full abortion. Something about the CL (corpus luteum or whatever it is - what feeds a fetus before the placenta takes over) vs. placental development. Whatever it was, the dex is supposed to make sure *everything* is passed, not just the fetus alone, causing a retained placenta / uterine infection.
aggieterpkatie
The Shepherd
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I think I'd send out a blood sample to Biotracking. If you mailed it today you may have the results by Friday. Actually, the tests might be done on Tuesday, so you may have to overnight it or just send it so you get the results next week. The "good" thing about the condition Mandy is in is possibly she won't be bred. You never know. And the other thing is how far along they are if they are bred. Don't you wish they could tell you when they were bred? 
And I'd never give any animal to that jerk again, and I'd tell him exactly why too. Jerk.
And I'd never give any animal to that jerk again, and I'd tell him exactly why too. Jerk.
- Thread starter
- #39
Roll farms
Spot Master
Here's my problem w/ preg testing now....they *just* left the buck. So I could get neg. results when they're just not far enough along to get a positive. Gonna ask him 'bout that, too.
Fittin' to go down and get more pics of Mandy. She has these wierd...lumps of bone..? that I have never seen on a goat...and I've seen a lot of goats...ugh.
edited to add more pics - any ideas what the lumps are? They're on both sides....DH thinks it's part of her 'bones' (ribs?) but...none of my other goats have anything there...? These aren't CL / cysts, etc. They are HARD, bony knobs.
Front 'armpit' area
Also, more pics of Mandy taken today. I'm wanting to see miraculous results and it just ain't a happening....
For comparison these are Foxy, my 'skinniest' Nubian doe, and Levi...who Mandy used to be nearly as big as....my hand measures 7" across stretched out. Look at a ruler. Hannah and Mandy are *barely* 7" across folks. I could kill this man.
Hannah
Mandy
More pics of mandy
This is not me pushing in, I'm just illustrating how sunk in she is.
Fittin' to go down and get more pics of Mandy. She has these wierd...lumps of bone..? that I have never seen on a goat...and I've seen a lot of goats...ugh.
edited to add more pics - any ideas what the lumps are? They're on both sides....DH thinks it's part of her 'bones' (ribs?) but...none of my other goats have anything there...? These aren't CL / cysts, etc. They are HARD, bony knobs.
Front 'armpit' area
Also, more pics of Mandy taken today. I'm wanting to see miraculous results and it just ain't a happening....
For comparison these are Foxy, my 'skinniest' Nubian doe, and Levi...who Mandy used to be nearly as big as....my hand measures 7" across stretched out. Look at a ruler. Hannah and Mandy are *barely* 7" across folks. I could kill this man.
Hannah
Mandy
More pics of mandy
This is not me pushing in, I'm just illustrating how sunk in she is.
RPC
Overrun with beasties
Kim, this is just horrible I am so sorry this happened to those pretty girls but I am sure if anyone can turn them around it is you. I was worried Ruby wouldn't be up to your standards but I can not believe someone would return these girls thinking they were fine. I feel bad for all the other goats he may have and I would almost call the ASPCA on him so that he can never do this to another living animal. I hope they turn around for you with a little time.
