Starting from scratch with goats

[babsbag]

The welded wire fencing is not what you want, it breaks easily and is not easy to stretch without breaking. You want this kind. It is NOT cheap.
http://www.redbrand.com/Products/HorseFence/Non-Climb.aspx

And to be honest I don't think a 6' is going to keep predators out any more than a 4', except maybe deer. Coyote and cat will go over either. The hot wire will help but even that is not great. If predators are an issue...aren't they always, you might consider a Livestock guardian dog. IMO no farm with goats or sheep should be without one.

 

[Onyx]

I actually found another roll of wire, that is the non-climb horse wire, it's $250 for 100 feet. From the same supplier. It is only 5 feet tall, that's as tall as they seem to make it, though.

I could put some hot wire higher up to make a taller fence.

Regarding LGD, I thought at first that I would be for sure getting one. Then, after doing some more reading, I'm pretty sure that my place is too small for a true LGD. However, I do plan to have Newfoundlanders. Newfies are pretty laid back, but their size alone would probably be some kind of visual deterrent, and I just need the dog to let me know if something is going on so I can come out and deal with it. Heck, my Frenchton is very guardy with anything she considers "hers" and would certianly let me know if anything was threatening my livestock.

I don't know how much of a problem predators are where I live. But since my property is backed up against miles and miles of untouched forest (as untouched as anything is these days) I'm assuming it is likely to be an issue.

What about chain link dog runs? You can get those 8 feet high and they are very sturdy.

 

[babsbag]

The dog runs would probably be ok; I use those panels for everything, but the goats do rub on them and they get kind of saggy at times. I really like the no climb.

As far as the dog, I have 2 in a pasture that is less than an acre and they are fine. Sometimes, like maybe every few weeks, they get another 2 acres to run on, but they go all winter with the small field and never has access to the additional land at night.

One thing about a true LGD breed...they will sleep in the day and be awake all night and they will stay right in the field with the goats. Your Newfoundland probably won't do either of those. If you have that much undeveloped land around you I wouldn't write off the dog so quickly. They are invaluable.

 

[Onyx]

@babsbag My main concern is being able to provide what a LGD needs. The property is 1 acre in total, but right now, the way I'm planning things is that there will be 1/4 acre of home and garden, and the other 3/4 acres will be divided into paddocks - probably one permanent paddock for goats and the rest divided into rotating paddocks for a couple of ponies and whatever other livestock - still pondering what I have room for in practical terms.

From what I understand most true LGDs need a lot more room than that to be happy - the size of the paddocks will only be 1/8 of an acre or so.

What about a miniature donkey? I've read that donkeys make good guardians.

 

[alsea1]

Go with a really strong elec. fence. That keeps critters in and critters out.

 

[Southern by choice]

Your Frenchton will get eaten by a coyote faster than you can get to the door. @babsbag is right. Your Newfie, which I love BTW, is not a LGD breed. LGD breeds are different, they are nocturnal, instinct to be with livestock, guard and protect at all cost. They are wired differently. All LGD's are working dogs but not all working dogs are LGD's.

I agree that if assessed properly the right LGD can go on small land but I would not put a LGD full time in 1/8 acre. 2x4 No climb is pricey but is the best fence available.
Not sure how a miniature donkey would do as a Livestock Guardian.

 

[Onyx]

@Southern by choice I would not let my Frenchton out at night precisely because I do not want her to be eaten by a coyote! But I expect she would still alert me from inside the house if there was anything outside, assuming it was close enough to the house for her to hear.

And yes this is my exact dilemma, I don't really have enough land to be suitable for a true LGD so my plan was to rely on "alert" dogs and do the responding myself, but try to have good enough fences to keep predators out as much as possible. I doubt a mini donkey would be able to stand up to a medium or large sized predator but hopefully would alert me in time to get out there and put the run on any varmints.

I plan to have a Norwegian fjord horse as soon as I am prepared... I know they also make excellent guardians, but they are expensive so not sure how fast that will happen.

I am hoping to be able to buy at least another adjoining acre or two at some point, and of course then I'll have more options.

 

[Bossroo]

The Neufie or Frenchton would have next to "0%" chance to stand up to coyotes ... my accross the street neighbor had a Rottwailer guard dog to guard a herd of 30 sheep on a half acre night pen less than 50 feet from his house. One night without hearing a sound even from their lab / ? mutt in the house , all they found was this dog's head and hide after the coyotes did their dasterdly deed. As for mini donkey as a guard animal... DREAM ON !!! They too are prey animals after all. A neighbor just 3 miles from our ranch in Cal. breeds 5 mini jennies with their 1 jack in a 5 acre field . Well one morning they found one jenny killed by coyote and partially eaten with the rest of the minies mingling nervously next to the fence nearest their house. Owners never heard a sound. I doubt that the Fjord horse would be much of a deterent ... On a QH ranch a few miles from mine a cougar killed a 3 day old foal with 9 mares and their foals in the pasture and took it up an old oak tree and partially ate it there. Also, 7 years ago , a cougar killed one of my yearling fillies in my front 5 acre pasture where I had 4 mares and 3 other yearling fillies with her. My 2 guard Boxers never made a sound and I never heard a sound from the other horses much less from a attack trained Doberman Pincher from next door. Good luck !

 

[Baymule]

The 5' horse wire with 8' T-post would give you 2' of post in ground and 6' for fence. Top with two strands of hot wire for 6' fence. Bossroo summed up the predator report.

 

[Onyx]

If coyotes are that deadly, then basically they are going to eat everyone's livestock no matter what you do then, lol. They must have gone on a radical self-improvement plan since the coyotes we dealt with at the trail riding/farm I worked at, where they were basically a danger to chickens, ducks and cats and that's a bout it (they used to surround the tent where I slept at night, because the barn kittens would come in and sleep with me... I'd stick my head out and yell BOO! and they'd run screaming in terror). I guess I will just have to make my fences as tall as possible and hope for the best.