What kind of Guardian does your herd have?

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lgdnevada

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carolinagirl,

You have yet to get your first LGD by your own admission. You have absolutely no background in LGD's or Turkish dogs unlike Brian and myself. Yet you, not even an LGD owner yet, are going through an inordinate amount of work to try to discredit us both over a very primitive rare breed simply because your Turkish is non-extant and Google is notorious for botching up translations and you are convinced the Boz is a 'designer dog'. It is futile to change your mind about that and I've got more important things to do than convince you otherwise. You want to think that, go ahead. It will not change the truth of the breed.

Neither Brian or I owe anyone - particularly someone with NO LGD background - any explanation or 'proof' for what we know is a real breed that is cherished by Turks and used successfully for livestock protection, is NOT solely used for fighting, HAS existed for eons, and is NOT some made-up 'dream dog' of one man's making as you are in your ignorance, trying to make it out to be. Brian has given you answers yet you still pound away at him as if you haven't comprehended those answers or you don't want to hear them; its like you just want to plow ahead and spat over this. How you became a Turkish LGD expert overnight before you even got an Anatolian puppy from Missouri, frankly is fodder enough for another thread on its own....please, no one is forcing you to get or like a Boz. There was also inference that we are here to market our pups. No. It will take Brian and I three years to fill the orders we have for Boz pups right now. We are not here to sell them, we don't NEED to. I enjoy sharing my experiences and expertise with others who want to learn. I enjoy this forum for other topics as well as the LGD's. Please let's not take this any further and drop it if it can't be discussed in a more civil manner than has been done. Neither Brian or I have the time to do your dirty work for you. That you can't find the info does not mean it is not out there, it is, you will find it difficult to find due to the language barrier and poor translation on the web. I did my own research and don't have the time to do it for someone who'll never own a Boz to begin with. I hope you understand. Sincerely, Brenda
 

carolinagirl

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I was not trying to discredit anything. I was interested in finding out more about this breed and ran into road blocks every step of the way. So as I would with anything I can't find the answer to, I ask the people who do know about them for links that I may check out. And that's when Brian got all defensive like I am trying to prove something. all I said was what I found on the web....and what I didn't find. don't you think that other people might be interested in them? It;s just kind of funny on pet forums where people ask what kind of dog they should get, I see Brian's post....oh get a Boz shepherd!! I mean isn't that a little silly to tell someone who is randomly looking for a pet to get a breed that they can't get even if they wanted to, and can't research because nothing about the breed exists? so never mind. If y'all want to keep the secret information about this breed to yourselves a secret, fine by me.

And I don't really see what currently having or not having a LGD has to do with my curiosity about this breed. I never claimed to be an expert on turkish breeds....that's why I was hoping someone could give me some links. Guess not.
 

MonsterMalak

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Sadly, there seems to always be someone with an appetite for conflict on the forums. Truely do not know why people have to be that way.
Simple questions can be answered, but to have to answer the same questions over and over, as to have to prove something seems pointless. To have to defend ones self against baseless acusations is unnecessary.When you explain why something is difficult to obtain, it is not a good enough answer. As if I owe this person proof of something that has no effect on her.

The question to show proof, as if I owe it to someone, can not be easly done since I do not read or speak Turkish.
To say that we are keeping the SECRET is again just a reflection of how you have failed to listen to out best explanations. It may exist, but by not speaking Turkish, will be hard to find. OK.

But I put some inquires out to my Turkish friends to find INTERNET verification, so I can show some proof to someone that can't take a persons word.

Sadly, the Turkish friends of mine have shown a level of trust, not extended by some on this forum. They are sending puppies to me prior to my being able to pay for them.

Because they want me to have some of this breeding. Telling me, just pay us the $4,000 when you can. "Your word is good my friend".

I just find it ironic that for someone without LGD experience, preparing to buy a cross bred dog, would hammer someone to show proff that their breed is not crossbred.

Enjoy your dog when you get it, and I hope he works out great for you.

Have a Good Day!
 

rockdoveranch

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I have read and reread lgdnevada and MonsterMalak posts on this thread and on other forums, and frankly, I am not really sure what exactly they are saying. Is it a Boz Guregh or Boz Coban Kopegi? Or is the dog actually a Kangal? So far I have read where Monster has implied that the Boz is a mixture of 3, then 2 breeds. I know that foreign languages translated into English are often misinterpreted, even by the best interpreter.

I am confused as to what breeds MonsterMalak and lgdnevada have. If I remember correctly after reading on another forum, Igdnevada's Boz died in transport, and it seems that Monster has maybe two dogs he refers to as Boz, one adult male and one male pup. Igdnevada's has posted that it would take years to fill their orders for Boz puppies, and yet Monster appears to be saying that he is not breeding. I have read that they are wanting to start a Boz association here in the United States, so it makes no sense to me that they are not forthcoming in their responses to interested parties.

As a Boxer dog person of 60 years, when someone posts on a forum that he has a Boxer, and then when questioned as to who his breeder is, his answer is that his Boxer is a "Mixbreed of Boxer and American Bulldog" his credibility goes down.

One can only respect others who inquire and do their research, especially on dogs that are used for specific reasons. Asking for credentials should not be deemed as distrust. It is a show of respect on both sides of the table.

As for me, I have sent several emails off today to sources I consider to be reliable regarding the Boz dog.

I encourage Carolinagirl to continue to do her research and ask questions as this is the best way to make an informed conclusion and decision. This is how I live my life and I encourage everyone to do the same.

I encourage Monster to continue to search for information to support what he and Igdnevada are saying.

I really have nothing else to say on the Boz until I get my email responses.
 

elevan

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MonsterMalak said:
Again,

There is a difference in asking questions and throwing out negative opinions.

When you disregard our explanations with more doubts, it seems pointless to try to appease you.

If I were applying for authentication through an organization you were the head of, I might could understand your level of sceptacism. But sadly, I find myself answering questions of doubt from someone that has no true interest in the breed.

Can you not understand they are a breed that only recently was brought out of a remote region, and is being introduced to the world. Sorry there is not information on the internet from a country that does not speak english. The Boz have won many shows, tractor pulls, competitions. But untill last year, were called Kangal due to the lack of seperation of the breeds. So does this mean they are Kangals... If it will satisfy you, call them what you may.
While this post wasn't directed at me...I feel inclined to comment on it as I feel that I've something relevant to say here.

I'm inclined to believe in the Boz breed. And I'm certainly interested in it.

Here's why and what I've found.

The Kangal dog was not know to most of the western world until 1983 when it was written about by David and Judy Nelson. And as far as I can tell no one here is disputing the validity of the Kangal. And it has been known to us less than 20 years (in the western world).

There are many oban kopegi or shepherd's dogs, in Turkey.

The other native breeds are members of the oban kopegi (cho-ban ko-pay-hee) group. These dogs have been used generations in their native Turkey primarily for protecting sheep against predators, such as bear in ancient times and now wolves. In Turkey, the shepherd's dogs accompany the shepherd and the flock to the high summer pastures, or yaylas, and live there until after the harvest is finished in the lower valleys. The flock then moves back to the village fields until the onset of winter. During winter, sheep, dogs and any other livestock, such as the family's cattle or goats, are housed in the village in low barns. Throughout most of Turkey the oban kopegi are simply village dogs. They are not bred on a pure or pedigreed basis. However, there are certain regions in Turkey where the dogs have become a matter of great pride and have been bred on a purebred basis for hundreds of years. In these areas, regional breeds are found.
I would ascertain from this that the Turkish Boz Coban Kopekleri (a western alliteration of Coban Kopegi) is a regional breed of the shepard's dogs of Turkey. Boz appears to be a common surname in Turkey as well.

I would say open your mind to the possibility that you're not yet going to find something on the internet doing a specific search for a breed not yet well known to the western world.

I found the information that I did by searching dogs of turkey.

I own a breed of dog (Basenji) that wasn't "found" by European society until 1895 but it took until the 1930's to bring it to England and the 1940's to make it known to the U.S. And they believe that they are one of the oldest breeds on the planet and it took that long to recognize them and even longer to bring them out of the Congo.

I have no problem believing that the Boz is a regional breed of shepard dog from the remote moutains of Turkey.

edited: deleted my comment about starting a new thread for a Boz discussion
 

rockdoveranch

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I find the entire thread of interest.

Although I do not have a livestock guardian animal, I know Texas shepherds who do. We all come from different places with life-times of different experiences, so whether it be a dog, llama, donkey or turkey, or even one specific breed of an animal, what works for one person may not work for another.
 

elevan

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I only suggested that the topic be discussed on a new thread as it seems to have become a "heated" debate about 1 particular type of LGD. If I hadn't already posted to the thread I would avoid posting now as it seems to have gone from What kind of Guardian does your herd have? to almost 5 pages of 7 of What is your opinion on the Boz LGD?

My apologies to the OP...I'll bow out of the conversation now. Thank you.
 

MonsterMalak

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Please accept my appologies for what part i may have played in the domination on this thread. It was never my intention to do so, I was only trying to defend against persons compelled to discredit something they know little about.

I will start a thread for the Boz Shepherd Dog. I would like to ask that people with strong negative opinions that do not have a true interest other than to elevate themselves to a status of Forum Bully, please find something else to focus on.

I have answered all the questions to the best of my ability, but being baddgered by people that have never owned a LGD seems ridiculous. RockDoveRanch, I am sorry, but all the questions in your last post are to (lacking Knowledge) to answer. They show that you have embarked into a quest without even the basic knowledge of Turkish Breeds. And even if I gave it the best of my ability, you obviously would not understand.

Again, please accept my appology.

Brian Peckinpaugh

FYI, The Annual Turkish Dog show (Previously the Kangal Show) in Istanbul on 09/25/2011 is now seperating out the breeds, and Boz Coban Kopegi will be one of the recognized breeds.

Barbaro.jpg
 

carolinagirl

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I was not badgering. I was simply trying to get answers, which you would not provide and instead got terribly defensive. How is one to learn about a breed when no one is willing to post any links to credible information? I really don't care anymore about this breed. If this is how all breeders of these "boz shepherds" act, then why on earth would I even want to consider one of them? I wasn't asking for much and neither was Maruene. We just had a few questions based on what our own web searched produced. If our initial questions had been answered, we would not have to go searching for information on our own, which just lead to even more questions. Sorry if my questions offended you but how is a person supposed to learn anything if questions are asked and not answered?

I won't be posting on this debate anymore. It's just not worth my time to argue with people who so obviously want to judge me and find me ignorant just because I ask questions and don't have my own LGD yet. My advise to anyone who is considering one of the rare breeds (not just this breed but ANY rare breed from any breeder) is to do your own homework. If your breeder is not forthcoming with good verifiable information about his breed, you may want to look elsewhere. Just my opinion.
 

MonsterMalak

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Carolina Girl,
If you take the time to ACTUALLY go back and read all of our responses to your Questions.... They were answered! Lack of comprehension on your part should not be considered a refusal on my part.

This persistant request for CREDIBLE VERIFICATION may be unquenchable at this point. Like we over and over tried to explain to you, the information you are asking for either does not exist, or we are unaware of. Mostly due to the Turkish language barrior. So unless I can pull it out of thin air, or somewhere else, your persistance can only be taken as either a lack of ability to comprehend or refusal to do so.

BUT this in no way should discredit the existance of the breed. Research the efforts that have gone into the introduction of other Ancient or regional breeds.
In that is where you will find your answer. But only if you can expand your knowledge base, and open up your mind beyond your small existance.

In Sept after the Istanbul Dog Show, I will post the information for you and others like you.

Although I feel that nothing will be enough to satisfy you, as you have a basic lack of understanding in regards to the complexities in such a matter.

GoodBye!
 
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