What the heck did this? [Warning: Graphic photos]!

[greybeard]

@soarwitheagles having game cams all over 30+ acres and all our neighbors having numerous game cams too... the animals we see vary day to day and some are more permanent to the region than others. Just keep that in mind. We have several coyote pairs that are easily identifiable, this is their territory. We see them often, yet others come through. Keeping cams up throughout and viewing the feed for about a month will give you a better idea of what you have on their. Just because you see a fox doesn't mean it was a fox.

I have, on another board read of a belief that there are "good coyotes and bad coyotes" and it came from a couple of producers that run hundreds of head of cattle on several sections of land and they were pretty adamant that shooting all and any of them resulted in an over population of rabbits, deer, and other small game that cause problems in cropland. How one would tell the difference, I'm not sure, since it's doubtful they watch over their calves on a daily basis.
Thoughts?

 

[Bruce]

My GUESS is that if there is plenty of natural prey, the coyotes will go after that rather than go through/over fences to get livestock of whatever nature. "Bad" coyotes would be the ones where there isn't enough natural food and they are going to eat even if it means risking contact with humans and their livestock.

 

[greybeard]

My GUESS is that if there is plenty of natural prey, the coyotes will go after that rather than go through/over fences to get livestock of whatever nature. "Bad" coyotes would be the ones where there isn't enough natural food and they are going to eat even if it means risking contact with humans and their livestock.

Perhaps, but that's not what they were saying. Even when small game was plentiful, there were certain packs of coyotes that seemed predisposed to go after livestock, while others, even in bad years wouldn't. These are large tracts of land..a section is one sq mile--640 ac so I don't think contact with humans was an issue. Genetics is thought to play a part in it.

 

[Southern by choice]

I asked my son... he is a hunter but also a licensed trapper that also deals with nuisance animals etc... he looked closely at the pics
His opinion.. the head was cut off and there were signs. I can't copy the pic but when I enlarged it he pointed out the tell tale areas that say "head was cut off"
There are two very distinct areas that show cut. I mentioned nothing just pulled up the pics and asked what animal would do that.
He said, that was cut off.

People who hunt regularly trap and track generally have a good idea of these things.


@greybeard I have seen a lot of info about coyotes and in some areas they found if hunted heavily they will produce more pups. Some areas it seems that coyotes have learned to live the easy life and will not go after wild prey but prefer the easy kill... dogs, cats, livestock.
Eliminating the coyotes and equating that with other wildlife resulting in over population IMO has merit however I think the bigger issue is we have a culture that is anti hunting. Let everything live, vegans and ARA throwing their idiotic nonsense in the mix is never useful.

I also look at how awhile ago (last year sometime) there was this video that had millions of views extolling the wolf and how once the wolf came back to the park they saw all these other animals flourishing. People were all goo gaa over it. Problem, NOT TRUE. Several universities looked at all the info all the data and showed this not only to be false but pointed to the real reasons for revival of certain species. They published the truth. Nope, public didn't care, not shared... just stuck there with no notice.

 

[Bossroo]

One of my neighbors owns 400 acres and 100 cows. When a cow lays down to give birth , the coyotes sneak in and start to eat the nose and face off of the calf while the rest is still in the cow. He and his foreman would bring in the cows to a corral and barn to give birth and take turns to night watch and shoot coyotes that come in to eat the calves alive. Another neighbor that lives next door to the catleman has 20 acres and has 40 ewes. Between him and I , we kill about a dozen coyotes per year and hang their carcasses on the fence (as a deterent to their kin but this has little effect), that come to kill the lambs . Another cow rancher about a mile away owns 5,000 acres and has 250 cows. He invites a number of his friends every fall to shoot coyotes for a week. They kill over 75 coyotes every year for the last 20 years which helps to lessen his calf losses.

 

[High Desert Cowboy]

Sorry late comer here. Looking at your pictures I have to agree that whatever killed your lambs was a predator of the two legged variety. Having seen my fair share of predator kills, as well as scavenger meals, I’ve never seen a head removed so cleanly and taken while leaving the rest of the body intact. A predator will go for meatier parts of the body, and scavengers will start with the softer pieces like viscera. So unless you’ve found a chupacabra, I’d really make sure you hide those cameras well. These aren’t hungry or desperate people, as again they would’ve taken something meatier. This was someone either being destructive for no reason or they were looking for something specific, graybeard mentioned recipes online requiring lambs head. Growing up I remember a neighbors cow was found stabbed multiple times and then beat to death for no reason what so ever. Some people are just evil and take lives for no purpose other than boredom.

 

[greybeard]

Some people are just evil and take lives for no purpose other than boredom.

Absolutely true. We see proof of that in the news, way too frequently.

I can certainly accept that the lamb's head was cut off by human but it again brings up the question of unless it was shot first, how did they catch it?

Bossroo..I've seen and done the carcass hanging on the fence thing myself with different types of undesirable wildlife. I don't think it does a bit of good but it's been done for decades with everything from snakes to buzzards to wolves & cougar and coyotes. ('Most' of the time I saw it, it was very conspicuously done on a fence right next to a public highway, so I don't think it was solely for warning or deterring the surviving members of predator families.)

 

[Bruce]

or they were looking for something specific, graybeard mentioned recipes online requiring lambs head.

Which is really sad since the original reason for recipes of that type was to not waste any of the animal when food wasn't so easy to come by for most people. Instead they take the head and leave the rest?

 

[soarwitheagles]

I am still waiting for my new trail cams to arrive. I did mount an older model Primos Truth Cam but the quality of the pictures is quite low and I think I need to increase the sensitivity of the motion detection. So far, we see some cats, a coyote, a fox and a raccoon.

I will increase the sensitivity on the motion detection and mount it again tonight.

 

[Bruce]

Perhaps, but that's not what they were saying. Even when small game was plentiful, there were certain packs of coyotes that seemed predisposed to go after livestock, while others, even in bad years wouldn't. These are large tracts of land..a section is one sq mile--640 ac so I don't think contact with humans was an issue. Genetics is thought to play a part in it.

So if people seriously go after the coyotes that kill livestock, the population of same SHOULD decline, right? I suppose it could also be "nurture", mama shows the kids where to hunt and what to eat. If mama shows them rabbits, they eat rabbits. If she shows them lambs, they eat lambs.