Wildrosebeef - Armchair Cattlewoman's BYH Journal

[SmallFarmGirl]

Nice pic of the bird!!!

 

[WildRoseBeef]

Nice pic of the bird!!!

Thanks.

 

[WildRoseBeef]

Well today's certainly a nice day, same as yesterday. But now I can't think of what to do today. Must be the weather....

I was basically thinking of doing a little brainstorming and "beginning" planning for if/when I decide to raise cattle. But sometimes it's a bit hard to know where to start.

I really don't know if I should start with commercial (mixed bred) cows or purebred and make them into commercial stock by simply not registering the calves. However, I DO know I need to start small, with only a few good, solid cows and not a bunch of average or inferior animals. But see, the problem is this: I'm not working with only 8 or 10 acres. I've got 360 bloody acres to work with here!! Even if I take over the first half (the 160 acre home-quarter section) of the land we own, for the first few years or so, I'm still going to be left with a lot of land to be made into pasture and/or hay. So that leaves me with two options:

1. Raise stocker steers from spring to fall and graze them on pasture, or
2. Make and sell hay.



I know one thing: I'd have to be hiring someone or some people to be doing my hay for me, and I certainly can't be selling all the hay because then there'd be nothing left to feed my really huge herd of only 3 or 5 cows during the winter. And would the cost of hiring someone to cut, rake and bale my hay be justified by the sale I make from it? I know it depends on the price of hay during the time I sell it, but I've a feeling I'd probably barely break-even on it. I might get some profit from selling stockers AND hay, but then I'd have to have a smaller stocker herd than what we'd normally have, or no stockers at all. Then again, if I utilize rotational grazing I may not.

Maybe I'm not thinking this through right, and I probably don't make any sense either. Anyway, I remember some things I've been taught by other ranchers and cattle producers I've talked to:

- You can never have too much hay
- Buy low sell high (some others say the opposite lol)
- A cow often can look after herself better than we think we can look after her
- Work to be a cattle breeder, not a cow-multiplier.

And other things that I can't think of right now.

The thing is is that I don't want to go back to what we had done with our stocker steers: purchasing in the fall, keeping overwinter in a sacrifice area and then pasturing them in the spring, summer and into fall, which is when we sold them. The sacrifice area that they were in shouldn't have been a sacrifice area in the first place. So what I'm thinking is to buy stockers and graze them on grass for a few months (four to five months) before selling them in the fall, and leaving the area until next spring. Or, let the grass grow, make hay on it, and sell some and keep the rest for my cows. Or both...since I won't be doing the continuous-grazing thing that we did with the past stocker steers we had (which resulted in one pasture being seriously overgrazed... ), and instead utilize rotational grazing. I can see problems with haying since I'll be taking off a lot of nutrients and not putting any back in, but then again if I make a system so that I'm haying one time and grazing another or vice versa, I probably won't have that sort of problem. I'll have to brain-storm on that later.

In the mean time in juggling summer stockers versus haying I'd be raising and building a cow-calf herd--a commercial one at that--that is one that takes very low to no inputs to raise. I don't want cows that need to be supplemented all the time if they're on just grass in the summer and hay in the winter. I'd try to keep most heifers as replacements, but of course can't be skimping out on any culling decisions if I get heifers that don't meet the requirements I'm looking for in the kind of cows I need.

The cows I need have to be the following:

- Preferably not black (can be exceptions though, especially with Galloways or Black Baldies)
- Docile (not complete pets, but enough that they're not going to freak out every time I come in the same enclosure as them)
- Good mothering ability (protective nature over calf [but not so protective that she'll act the same way towards me as with a neighbor's dog or coyote], accepts calf right away)
- Average to good milking ability (calf needs to be learning to eat and gain on grass to, not just milk)
- Good fertility (comes back into heat soon after calving, settles right away upon breeding)
- Good to great forage convertibility (have to be good converters on just grass and hay, because I ain't going to go out to buy grain for them)
- Calving ease (important: I can't have cows that are going to be going to be having trouble calving out 80 to 100 lb calves)
- Good conformation (also important, need to have good legs and feet, wide pelvic region, deep in the barrel, good udder, overall femininity)
- Medium to small frame size (I'm NOT going to raise cows that are over 1400 or 1500 lbs. I'd rather have cows that are between 900 and 1200 lbs, at least a size that I can reach when preg-checking and AI'ing and not have to have a stool to access!!)

I know that a lot of what I've listed have to do with handling, nutrition, feed, environment, and good responsible management choices, but there's quite a number that are also genetic that I need to watch out and select for (or against).

This is where I get to have fun choosing breeds. I'm not into Continental-type cattle (Limousin, Simmental, Maine Anjou, Charolais or Salers) because a) they're too darn big, b) they're often not the most docile of the bunch, c) they're quite often hard keepers (as far as feeding and calving is concerned), and d) I just don't really care for them. Yeah they're nice to look at, but that's as far as I'll go.

I could go to commercial mixed bred stock, but then there lies the problem: if I get commercial cows I don't know what's hidden in the wood pile, so to speak. I could end up being a hypocrite and raise cows that do have some Continental breeding in them which I may end up culling out if they're proving to be hard-keepers in my operation. So I believe the best option is to purchase straight-bred or purebred cattle of either of the following breeds:

- Hereford
- Speckle Park
- Shorthorn
- Red Poll
- Galloway
- Red Angus

I won't go with Black Angus because then I'm being a hypocrite all over again, me with my CAB-bashing and general fact that Angus cattle aren't all that docile to begin with. Which has merit, I'll say that, especially with talking with and reading various posts from various Angus producers from another forum I frequent.

So that leaves me with...oh, I dunno, six breeds to choose from?

Funny thing is all of these breeds have the potential to match the kind of cow I'm looking for. What matters the most in what influences my choices of what is best for me is:

a) Cost
b) Frequency and locality of breeders and breeds to my farm
c) How close these breeder's stock match to the kind of operation I'm wanting to run
d) What breed are most frequent and what are not to the area I'm in
c) Whether I want to be the odd-ball of the farming community or follow the norm

Well I know one thing: I'm certainly going to be a bit of an odd-ball in my neck of the woods with the kind of grazing and wintering practices I have in mind. So now I'm thinking: Hey, why not take a risk and be the further odd ball by raising cattle that are not exactly "the norm" around here: Like oh, raising Speckle Parks for instance. It'd be kinda fun to be the "farmer" that gets people rubber-neckin' at my farm and my animals.

I'm not sure whether to go natural service or AI. It wouldn't really cost much to take a course in AI training and certification, but the problem with that is that I'd have to be practicing quite a bit on other cows if I want to achieve at least 80% conception rate in my animals, preferably 100%. I'd also have to get pretty familiar with equipment and practices involved in AIing. There probably is an AI tech around here, but I'm not aware of any and would have to do quite a bit of digging to find any. As for natural service, I don't have to do any extra practicing or training to get my cows bred, I just let the bull do his business. But the down side is that I would only have a few cows to breed, not 20 or 50, at start-up, he takes extra feed and pasture, and has the potential to be wrecking pastures and fences, especially since there ARE other cow herds around less than half a mile away from my farm.

Decisions, decisions, decisions. I've been told by quite a few to just go AI, it's much easier, and since I don't care for bulls and the costs keeping such animals, it's probably better if I go AI instead of natural.

More thoughts on grazing and grazing practices later on.

 

[SmallFarmGirl]

Personally I do breeding the natural way and like it that way the best. Everyone's different though and I hope you find the best way for you.

 

[77Herford]

There certainly is benefits in AI'ing, you can breed exactly who you want. You could always rent a bull for breeding time and then don't have to deal with him the rest of the year.
For so few cows to start I would have to agree with you on not having a bull fulltime.

Those 6 Cattle options are good ones.

 

[WildRoseBeef]

Personally I do breeding the natural way and like it that way the best. Everyone's different though and I hope you find the best way for you.

Yes, I can understand that, but I'm breeding/raising cattle, not goats, and I don't think bucks are as hard on barbed wire or electric fences (breaking wires and that) or the pasture itself (in making bull pits) than a bull is. And bucks aren't nearly as dangerous as a bull either! Sure you'll get a few bruises if a buck gets a bit nasty with you, but you won't get trampled or crushed to death like with a bull. It's those sort of things that I don't like when handling bulls, in addition to the extra feed and mineral that goes into keeping one.

Not to mention, like I said before, there are a quite a number of other neighbors (three or four that I can think of) that are no more than a mile or half a mile away that raise cows and heifers, which will easily grab a bull's attention should there be a female in heat! Of course that won't be a problem if I have good facilities to keep one in during the off-season. And I do have good, solid, high steel fencing, not the puny barbed wire and temporary electric.

Soooo much to think about.

There certainly is benefits in AI'ing, you can breed exactly who you want. You could always rent a bull for breeding time and then don't have to deal with him the rest of the year.
For so few cows to start I would have to agree with you on not having a bull fulltime.

Those 6 Cattle options are good ones.

Yep, but the problem is choosing which one! That's where I have to do my research, and see what breeder are within the 100 mile radius of where I'm starting up.

I'm really skeptical about the rent-a-bull prospect. It may be ideal if I have Hereford or Shorthorn (since I have neighbors that raise Shorthorn and Hereford), or I have animals that match the type of cows that my neighbors raise, which are those that often get supplementation during the winter with not just hay, but silage and grain as well. And a large part of the neighboring cattle farms do just that. Rent-a-bull would also be possibly ideal if I want to have a cross-breeding operation and sell all the cattle that come from this. It's not ideal if I am raising commercial straight-bred cattle that are not what the neighbors have in their herds (Red Angus, Galloway and Speckle Park, for instance) that I need to develop not with a crossbreeding program, but with cattle of the same breed. I want to retain heifers so that I can adapt my cattle to the type of operation I have (or will have, rather), and breed my heifers and cows to a bull (or bulls) that have the kind of, well, genetics I need for going "grass-fed," or at least have the conformation that enable animals to be efficient on just grass and hay. Leachman of Colorado and Kit Pharo have some pretty good quality cattle, so if I end up getting some RA cows I might look into getting semen from bulls of either of these guys.

So, we'll see. There's certainly a lot of advertisements in the Western Producer selling RA bulls and cows, along with BA-cross bulls and cows. Not much on Galloway, but there's always a few on SP's.

 

[77Herford]

http://www.caseih.com/en_us/Products/Tractors/Pages/farmall-a-tractors.aspx

This tractor would probably work for your place. I have the C series.

As for cows and finding good semen I understand the hassle.

 

[WildRoseBeef]

http://www.caseih.com/en_us/Products/Tractors/Pages/farmall-a-tractors.aspx

This tractor would probably work for your place. I have the C series.

Thanks for the link. I was just looking at the balers they have, and boy are they pretty efficient, something I like. I'd need a hard-core baler to save on fuel, so those RB models are pretty darn good. Looking at the specs of some of them they'd be great for a Utility type CaseIH tractor you posted in the link above. May need something a little bit heavier (with a cab of course, LOL) than that, but still in the Utility division.

Perfect Hereford, I'm saving that link for future reference, thanks so much!

 

[WildRoseBeef]

Yet another beautiful day outside today! We recently got a new television (LED LG 42" ) and I'm just trying out the "monitor" type function of it and it's pretty neat! I have it hooked up to my laptop so I can view the screen from my laptop to the TV and so far I'm impressed!

You know after looking at the CaseIH website that 77Herefords sent me (Thanks again, btw!), I think it won't be that bad to be making hay. I've had so much experience with watching Dad do it from sitting in the tractor with him that I could most likely learn to do it on my own, rather than getting someone to get it done for me. That way I am the one in control because I know how I like my bales, when I can cut and bale it and that sort of thing without having to rely on someone or get after someone to do my hay on my land for me. But start-up costs for purchasing a good little tractor, a baler, mower/haybine and rake may be a bit much, but then again I don't have to go all brand-new either. Maybe on the tractor and baler, but not the rake or the haybine. I just have to figure out my costs and go from there.

Now, for my grazing plans. I'd like to talk a little about my plans for wintering/winter grazing cattle.

My biggest issue is winter time. What in the heck am I going to do to feed cattle come winter?? I want to try the method of getting them out of the corrals and into the pasture in the winter time, but the problem I have is the amount of snow that I get in the winter. The snow can get so deep that it is impossible for my cows to do any stockpile-grazing. I may be able to do some in early spring or into early winter if there's not much snow on the ground, but when I do get plenty of snow that is too deep for the cows to be plowing through to the at the grass underneath, then I have to look for alternatives.

It's really not possible to "kick the hay habit" where I am because of the winter months. I can see it done easily in places where you typically get little snow fall, but not up here. However, that doesn't mean that I have to be the one to be starting up the tractor every day or so and bring fresh bales to my cows, there is a thing called "bale-grazing" that is gaining ground from quite a number of people here in Alberta. All it involves is the process of making hay, then setting out the bales in such a way that temporary electric fence is put around certain bales for the cows to have access to until they clean it up. Then they move onto the next one and so on and so forth. I'd have to have the winter grazing area somewhere that is not too far away from home. There's a lot more to it than just setting up bales and setting electric fence of course, since how this grazing system works is based on how often to switch paddocks. I'd have to have it so that they're in the paddocks for no more than three days because of this old adage:

Day one kitchen, day two bedroom, day three bathroom.

And, the other thing that influences proper management of this sort of winter grazing system is how willing you are to force the cows to clean up and not leave any, or much waste behind. Give them enough time and they'll clean up the hay real nicely. We've done that with the steer calves before: there's days when we can't get in to feed them and they are forced to clean up the hay and/or silage beyond the three-day mark, and by the time we go in to feed them they'll have everything cleaned up, with minimal waste.

For starting up though, with only a few cows (gosh, even if I only start with like two or three, not five) I may have to do some sort of "bale-grazing" corral type wintering period, depending on their size and how much they're going to eat up in 24 hours. Once I get a larger herd, then I can really start doing some real bale-grazing. Ideally, bale-grazing really begins to work with at least 10 or 20 cows. It's best for the time when they're in their second trimester, so I believe that may give me enough time (like three months) to do some sort of winter-grazing management then.

I'll go over more on summer-grazing practices soon, and also cover my predetermined reproductive period that I would like to have for my cows, and the pros and cons of each.

 

[WildRoseBeef]

Spider finally killed that darned squirrel that's been around these last few months! I think that's his 12th or 15th squirrel he got (and has eaten) since he started figuring out squirrels really do taste good.