Wildrosebeef - Armchair Cattlewoman's BYH Journal

[WildRoseBeef]

My summer grazing practices are basically rotational grazing: switching pastures/paddocks every day or two days, depending on the size of the paddocks, and letting said paddocks rest for at least 30 days prior to being grazed again. I know for certain the stocking density in my area will be much higher than my stocking rate, but of course I have to be careful not to stock too much so that I don't have areas that are needed for a) stockpile grazing and/or b) making hay. It's so tempting to stock in such away that may double the amount of cows or stockers that are normally allotted for my area, but I have to plan for hay and winter pasture, if/when needed.

The concerns I've learned so far with rotational grazing is that it actually increases parasitic activity in the pasture. So I need to think of some way of working around this so I don't have a big problem with internal/external parasites for my cattle. I have several options that may be viable:

1) Graze a certain area only once a year and at the second round, cut for hay
Pros: Frees up previous grazing area for making hay; breaks up parasite cycle because the cattle are not in the pasture three to four weeks afterwards, ingesting the larvae from when they were last in the paddocks; may possibly allow more forage for making hay
Cons: More management planning to decide which pastures/paddocks get rest, which get grazed, when certain paddocks get grazed or hayed, etc. Will be incorporating labour and fuel costs due to having to hay pastures. Concerns about cattle not eager to eat hay from pastures that have previously been grazed due to less palatability from manure. May have to harrow right after cattle went through anyway, adding to additional fuel costs.

2) Come in with the harrow to break up cow patties after cattle have been moved to another paddock
Pros: This would take little time and effort to do: just start up the tractor (or ATV) and do a few passes and done.
Cons: Fuel expense/labour expense, not recommended because it makes manure more volatile and increases rate of nutrient runoff.

3) Rotate sheep or goats behind/in front cattle
Pros: It would be a way to help break up cattle parasitic cycle, more fun to work with, with extra stuff to work with in addition to the cattle I get to raise. Can also sell goat meat or lamb as "pasture raised." It would also add in extra fertilizer from them. Goats and sheep also will eat grasses/weeds that cattle won't touch.
Cons: I won't be able to raise as many cattle as I like. My stocking rate/density will be lower if I have cattle AND sheep/goats to raise. Fencing may also be an issue, especially with goats. Goats probably take a bit more work and attention to raise than cattle do, which means I probably can't be away from the farm all day and expect them to behave themselves or nothing go awry. I assume it's the same with sheep, though from a recent sheep vs. goat thread on here I've heard tell that sheep are easier and less work to raise than goats are. I would also have a LOT to learn about raising sheep and goats too.

4) Raise chickens and rotate them behind the cattle herd
Pros: Like with #3 above, it helps break up the parasitic cycle, and is probably least cost-method of disrupting the parasitic cycle, same with . Can raise chickens to butcher as "free-range" or "pasture-raised." Chickens also benefit from this because they can peck through the patties and add their manure to the pasture, as the manure from chickens is high in phosphorus; cattle manure is high in nitrogen.
Cons: Like with #3, I need to learn a lot about raising chickens, need extra facilities (like a mobile coop), etc.

For the time being, either doing one or two are the most likeable options for me, until I can get more information on the options of raising chickens, or goats or sheep. Ideally it would be nice to work out some way where I can minimize fuel costs, but that's going to be hard to do if I have to make hay.

Fencing and water is a different story. I need to work out some way of doing rotational grazing in addition to the low spots or potential riparian areas that need to be developed after being just mere low spots for such a long time. It's really hard to describe it all in words on here, so I'll have to digress until I can post on one of the cattle boards to get some comments/feedback. What I can tell you is that I need certain areas with permanent fencing, and other areas with temporary electric. The perimeter of the quarter sections NEED permanent fencing, the areas being fenced off inside don't really need it, but may be an idea, especially with the riparian areas that need to be made in such a way that there is minimal animal impact in these areas. These riparian areas are likely only used during times of severe drought when I can't be grazing pastures if I don't want to overgraze them.

Fencing also involves planning out the lanes I need or would want to have. The lay of the land is relatively hilly, with the low spots that typically fill up with water in the spring and after heavy rain, so I would like to have lanes on high-points of the land that enable cattle to access water and mineral.

As far as water is concerned, I am going to have fun working that out. The second quarter section does not have any watering facilities at all, and I would like to put in an automatic waterer a bit further away from where the other two are on the home-quarter. The one I would like further away would probably replace the one that's at the barn, and be the main waterer for the whole grazing scheme going on. In the second quarter, I would probably need a central one as well.

Problem with permanent automatic waterers are the initial costs of installing them, and the potential for the area to become degraded and quite muddy over time. Not to mention it has to be in an area where there won't be water runoff, or at least it will be minimized. So I've been tossing around the idea of temporary watering facilities for summer grazing, but not sure about watering in winter grazing, because there's so many options available for me to choose from.

I'm just bouncing ideas off here, so if you have any two cents or suggestions or even links to share as I go along here, it would be much appreciated. I feel like I've only scratched the surface here, and I know there's a lot more to come as I go along here.

 

[77Herford]

4) Raise chickens and rotate them behind the cattle herd
Pros: Like with #3 above, it helps break up the parasitic cycle, and is probably least cost-method of disrupting the parasitic cycle, same with . Can raise chickens to butcher as "free-range" or "pasture-raised." Chickens also benefit from this because they can peck through the patties and add their manure to the pasture, as the manure from chickens is high in phosphorus; cattle manure is high in nitrogen.
Cons: Like with #3, I need to learn a lot about raising chickens, need extra facilities (like a mobile coop), etc.


I would do this. Chickens are awesome at breaking up my manure during the warm months of the year and they eat up all the larvae and ticks. Since adding free range Chickens I've had a year over year drop in insects and sickness issues with livestock from parasites, ticks and flies. Another plus is they are natural rakers not just with manure but breaking up your soil just enough so the nutrients from your Cows and Chickens improve your pasture.

A rotating Chicken tractor would be ideal for this. There are many mobile chicken coop ideas on the web that are self made.

 

[RamblingCowgirl]

I don't think you could go wrong with Hereford or Shorthorn. I find around here a pasture full of Shorthorns will catch my eye over Hereford...they seem to have a better frame. But this is NE Oklahoma USA. And everone seems to be obsessed with black cattle so blah IMO...but thats just me thinking out loud really.

Chickens will have no nagitive impack on your grazing land. Sheep, and even goats will eat some of the same grasses your cattle would. Would you only have them in the warmer months? I don't think it would be worth it to raise them when there is snow on the ground.
I'm sure if you wanted to raise all 4 typs of animals you could, it will just take some time and testing on your part.

I like to go and look at the places I plan to build/use as often as I can....

Fencing also involves planning out the lanes I need or would want to have. The lay of the land is relatively hilly, with the low spots that typically fill up with water in the spring and after heavy rain, so I would like to have lanes on high-points of the land that enable cattle to access water and mineral.

You mite take you camera out and photograph it all. It helps a lot to have these photos on hand while making plans.

I have no idea if this would work for you, but what some people do is have someone mow&bale their pasture in trade. The owner keeps what hay they need, the baler gets the rest.

 

[WildRoseBeef]

That's the thing with chickens: I'd have to buy them as poults in the spring and sell to butcher in the fall. Not only that, but I have to find a market or people that are willing to buy pasture-raised chickens from me. I'm sure there's a niche market around somewhere around here, but it would certainly take a bit of digging and a few marketing tactics like word-of-mouth or an ad in the local newspaper to get some business. Certainly is good for making a few extra bucks though.

RC, I hear you on the Angus deal of things, and completely concur. Up here in the "Northern" part of Alberta it's not nearly as bad as it is down where you are, or down near Calgary, which is 500 miles south of us. There are the Angus breeders around, but the breed itself isn't so popular that all the cattle you see when you drive down the highway or up a country road are all solid black. There's plenty of Red Angus, Gelbvieh, Simmental, Hereford, Charolais and Limousin breeders kicking around that haven't bought into the black fad, and a large number of commercial herds that have quite a bit of red, white and yellow in them too. I ain't interested in the whites and yellows, more the reds than anything.

I forgot to mention in my other post (I'll have to put that in as soon as I submit this post) is my concerns with horns. It would be nice to try to have cows that are naturally dominant polled and don't carry the horn gene. It's more about the "fun" with dehorning calves than anything. However, if I decide to raise stockers for the summer I will have to go through the pains of dehorning any horned calves that come through. And of course I know salebarns do dock calves that come in with horns if I don't do anything about the horn issue. Shorthorns are, as far as I'm aware, getting more and more predominantly polled than Herefords are, and of course with RA's there's literally no worries about horns. This applies too if I decide not to go the stocker route. But, if I'm more choosy and picky about what stockers I get, I would have less of this problem than what Dad had before where he let the fella who bought the steers for him decide which are good for us to raise.

I'm going to think about the chicken thing, as it is a viable option to do and is certainly less work for me because a) I don't have to spread chicken litter on the pastures to help with better fertilization, and b) lower fuel costs because I don't have to turn on the tractor or quad (ATV's to some of you) to harrow what the cows and cattle left behind. I'm not interested in raising all four animal groups though, two types would be enough for me to worry over.

As far as pictures are concerned, they're just about not needed since I tend to have a photographic memory LOL. Seriously, I can remember parts of the land in this quarter and analyze it in my mind's eye and draw out what needs to be done. Of course it's more fun actually going out in the middle of the field in early spring or late fall when the fields are pretty dry where I can walk around and map out certain areas that I'm planning on putting a fence in, fencing off, etc. But areal-view pictures really help because they help pick out the various soil types in that quarter section, particularly when the fields lay bare prior to seeding, or after they've been tilled.

The fun part of planning out fences and lanes is that the corrals and the house are pretty well in one corner and side of the quarter section. That means both waterers are within a hundred yards of each other, not spread out to actually allow some form of rotational grazing without having to use lanes to get cattle to travel from the water source back out to pasture. I'm not saying getting cattle to travel is a bad thing, especially with the cows, but let's say for instance I decide to do some direct marketing beef; I'd want those waterers a bit closer than a half-mile away from the grazing area so that the beefers I slaughter are not totally lean from all that exercise they've been getting! But that aside, the other reason I want to put a waterer in a different location is so that it allows access without getting the cattle to cross a slough or creek/slough area to get to water. It's not healthy to have them allow access to such watering holes which can easily get muddy and full of manure and urine. Seen enough of that to get the urge to fence them off completely and force the cattle to drink out of CLEAN water tanks or watering areas, not crappy, gross ponds or sloughs. (Hence my other reason for fencing off riparian areas and sloughs!!)

The barn waterer probably has a broken water line because it leaks like a sieve every time we have it on for the cattle. We'd have to high someone to come in with the backhoe to dig up the water line, see what's wrong and either cap off the water line and remove the entire waterer, or fix it and have it still accessible to the animals. The issue of whether to fix or remove the waterer also surrounds where I'm going to put in my handling facilities: by the barn where the current, much poorer facilities are, or move them north to behind/beside the cattle sheds. Both places are on high ground, but the former has current access to light, electricity and water for keeping any sick or new quarantined animals. (Which obviously leads me to believe to renovate the facilities where they are now.)

Fencing, feeding, grazing and watering is SUCH a huge part of a livestock operation!!

 

[77Herford]

Didn't realize you were in Northern Alberta. I don't know what the pastures are like up there but I imagine they are ok. I bet they would be great for Wheat and Oats. Anyway maybe just a small flock for your own needs such as eggs and a few butchered chickens a month would be better. If you let them free range during the day you will still see a drop in flies, which is nice.

If you want Goats milks you could run a few Goats behind the Cows in your rotation but if you don't want milk I would just do some hair sheep and make a little extra in market lambs twice a year.

 

[SmallFarmGirl]

So when are you getting your cattle rose ????

 

[WildRoseBeef]

Didn't realize you were in Northern Alberta. I don't know what the pastures are like up there but I imagine they are ok. I bet they would be great for Wheat and Oats. Anyway maybe just a small flock for your own needs such as eggs and a few butchered chickens a month would be better. If you let them free range during the day you will still see a drop in flies, which is nice.

If you want Goats milks you could run a few Goats behind the Cows in your rotation but if you don't want milk I would just do some hair sheep and make a little extra in market lambs twice a year.

Pastures are pretty good up here, stocking rate is probably around 1 AUM/acre in fair conditions (stocking rates less in good to excellent condition), good enough to raise continental-type cattle like simmi and char. They are great for wheat, as the renter had planted a real thick crop of wheat here a year ago, and last year put in a nice crop of canola. He also puts in corn every year since he first started renting the land and taking it off for silage. We've had real nice crops of barley and canola when Dad was still around, and would take a field of barley off for silage, which was really good for the stocker/feeders we held over winter. I'd imagine with the kind of crops we can put on there, if I go rotational the grass growing here would be phenomenal! It would probably be in as good as or better condition than what we had before. I've got pictures of steers being in belly-deep GREEN grass and grass so thick that it can get hard to walk through, and they do very well on that stuff. Cows with calves would gain really well coming out of calving season on grass from our land, that's for sure.

I have to do a bit more research on the chicken thing before I decide to fully go right into it.

So when are you getting your cattle rose ????

That I really couldn't tell you. In the near future, like this year, I don't plan on getting any. I still have to get enough money in the bank and a driver's license before I can start getting the ball rolling here. It may not be until a couple years or so until I finally decide to invest in a few good cows to start this "ranch" of mine. Still in the planning process, so once i get that sorted out, then I can go from there. One step at a time.

 

[77Herford]

The other grain prices are going up because SO many farmers are growing Corn for the Ethanol industry. I got some of the best prices in years for my pitiful leftovers of Oats last year. This far south I don't get alot of bushels per acre for Oats but I prefer Oats to Corn for feeding.

 

[WildRoseBeef]

Well I did say a few days ago that I would post a bit about the reproductive schedule part of the cow herd, so here it goes.

Basically I would like to match the reproductive cycle to the grass cycle. Usually we let the steers out to graze around the beginning to middle of May, which is when the grass is around 10 to 12 inches high, and which is the best time to start grazing because the grass is at its highest nutritional value. It is obvious to think that cows at their highest lactation period should be set to graze at this time, which means the calves are around 2 to 3 months of age and it is usually when breeding season would start. This set-up would work just fine for producers who don't have to deal with snow and very wet and muddy springs, but not for me. I cannot nor do not want to calve in February to April because that's when the snow storms are and when, especially come near the beginning of to the middle of April, the sloughs and low parts of the pastures that aren't necessarily sloughs start filling with water and the mud gets accumulating and when pastures are too wet to be deemed safe for calving, or at least for the calves' health. So that means that I have to aim to calve around May into June (or end of April to start of or middle of June) so that calves are dropping on grass, not in water.

The other reason I don't want to be calving in February to April is that I don't have the facilities for winter calving. In most ranches you would need a lot bigger barns that can hold around 10 pairs, not just one or two. I would have to find the money to build such a barn, and it's not really in my plans. So winter calving (from January or February to April) is out of the question.

Ideally my calving season would be between 45 to 60 days long. Shorter the better, of course. I've heard some producers like to have the heifers calve before the cows, but I've also heard for some it makes no difference, since cows and heifers get checked regularly during the season anyway. Any thoughts on this?

Naturally how long the calving season is depends on how long the breeding season is. Of course I'd have the breeding season the same length as the calving season. If I go AI, that means that the breeding season would be probably much shorter than with natural breeding, but of course this usually isn't the case. I mentioned before that I want to go AI, and I think that may be the best way to go especially since I'm going to be starting with only two or three cows and not a whole herd of over 20. The actual breeding season would have to be in July to August, though I have to accommodate for a ~45 day rest period for the cows before they get bred again. So for example, a cow calves in May, gets a rest period in June to July and is bred in August.

Weaning would likely be around November to December. It certainly doesn't pose the same amount of issues if calves are weaned in the fall. Of course if I have the cows do the weaning, I won't be weaning until February or March. And of course that would probably make it a little difficult to plan out any bale-grazing schemes, though since I'm raising cattle on grass and hay only I should really expect the calves to gain on the hay (of course only if it's good quality hay, not marginal to poor which is best for getting cows to maintain or lose excess weight in the winter).

When to sell the calves and cull cows is a different story.

 

[WildRoseBeef]

Evenin'. Too busy to post much on here, I'm busy working on my accounting course today, doing a case study that takes a few hours to work on. Half-way through today, still got a little more to do tomorrow.