Worming lambs and moms

[feed grass]

Thanks Southdown,

This article makes total sense. It is what is happening in humans too - WAY too much overuse of antibiotics hence the Superbugs. AND if you are eating commercially raised meat from the grocery store then you are most likely feeding yourself antibiotics & goodness know what else! Not a very pleasant thought. If the consumer really woke up to what is going on there would be a lot more folks moving to the country raising their own meat.


Liz

The world evolved from the way it 'used' to be for a reason.

Not everyone can afford to live on 40 acres and be self sustaining-- actually very few people have the money, the brains, or the work ethic to do so.

it's not cheaper to raise it yourself, no matter how you look at it.

homegrown meat isn't all it's cracked up to be either, in almost every case all it does is put money in someone else's pocket-- and force the consumer to either have tons of freezer space-- or get burnt out eating the same thing over and over.

Not to mention, that land prices are way over 10k an acre throughout the cornbelt.

 

[Cornish Heritage]

it's not cheaper to raise it yourself, no matter how you look at it.

I never said it was cheaper to raise it yourself! LOL! Especially pork that does need grain supplementation. Grass fed beef & lamb though can be cheaper.

homegrown meat isn't all it's cracked up to be either, in almost every case all it does is put money in someone else's pocket-- and force the consumer to either have tons of freezer space-- or get burnt out eating the same thing over and over.

If you are not raising it yourself you need to research where you are buying it from. Your statement

in almost every case all it does is put money in someone else's pocket

goes for nearly everything you purchase in this world! If you buy meat from the grocery store you are supporting the big conglomerates - putting money in their pockets.

burnt out eating the same thing over and over

Are you saying that a pig in your freezer is going to cause you to become bored with what you are eating? Bacon, sausage, chops, ribs, roasts etc. Throw in a few chickens & you have some variety. Granted, not everyone has room for a whole cow in their freezer & that is why you can normally purchase those in quarters.

Years ago many many folks raised chickens in their back yards. Chickens do not take up much space, you certainly do not need a large acreage. They provide you with healthy eggs & meat. If you only have a few they can live off your food scraps so no extra money to feed them is necessary. If you have more than a few a 50lb bag of feed will still last quite a while.

Cheaper is not the real issue here, it is the health of the people. Yes it can be cheaper in the short term to eat junk food but what does it do to you in the long term? Think medical bills, aging faster etc. There is absolutely no question that what we put into our bodies affects our health & the big food conglomerates along with the majority of hospitals & doctors want to keep your body in ill health so you keep coming to see them. Most insurance companies including Medicare & Medicaid do not pay for preventative care! That should tell you a lot!

Worming animals just for the sake of doing it is foolishness. I am NOT saying never to do it but we should do it with care & only if necessary. We are not an organic farm here & never make that claim but we do try to be responsible to the land & the animals by breeding hardy animals that can grow & thrive on very limited human interference.

Liz

 

[Southdown]

Well said Cornish.
I wasn't even looking for that article and when I read it, it was just what I was needing. We haven't wormed our lambs yet, but they are doing healthy and putting on lots of weight. I don't see a need right now.

It certainly isn't cheaper to raise your own food, but it's not all about the money. It just depends on what is important to you and your priorities. I want to know what I am putting into my body. One can eat cheaply, but you will pay for it later. Certainly in medical problems, such as diabetes type II, hypertension, high cholesterol, etc, etc. It is definitely unfortunate that preventive health is not covered more, as you say. Nobody is perfect, but I like to try and make good choices so I won't pay for it in my future (or the future of the planet, for that matter). Look at our fields, which are now resistant to round-up etc. Same concept as the antibiotic and worm resistance. I see a pattern. Quite frankly, this is depressing. It's expensive to buy healthy food from co-ops too, but at least you're getting quality food and supporting small, organic farmers. Or producing your own and hopefully someone will buy local. I would rather support a small farmer instead of Walmart. Another good thing about doing your own food is that you get some personal satisfaction from all your hard work. There is something to be said about doing work with your own two hands. I love it.

 

[Remuda1]

it's not cheaper to raise it yourself, no matter how you look at it.

I never said it was cheaper to raise it yourself! LOL! Especially pork that does need grain supplementation. Grass fed beef & lamb though can be cheaper.

homegrown meat isn't all it's cracked up to be either, in almost every case all it does is put money in someone else's pocket-- and force the consumer to either have tons of freezer space-- or get burnt out eating the same thing over and over.

If you are not raising it yourself you need to research where you are buying it from. Your statement

in almost every case all it does is put money in someone else's pocket

goes for nearly everything you purchase in this world! If you buy meat from the grocery store you are supporting the big conglomerates - putting money in their pockets.

burnt out eating the same thing over and over

Are you saying that a pig in your freezer is going to cause you to become bored with what you are eating? Bacon, sausage, chops, ribs, roasts etc. Throw in a few chickens & you have some variety. Granted, not everyone has room for a whole cow in their freezer & that is why you can normally purchase those in quarters.

Years ago many many folks raised chickens in their back yards. Chickens do not take up much space, you certainly do not need a large acreage. They provide you with healthy eggs & meat. If you only have a few they can live off your food scraps so no extra money to feed them is necessary. If you have more than a few a 50lb bag of feed will still last quite a while.

Cheaper is not the real issue here, it is the health of the people. Yes it can be cheaper in the short term to eat junk food but what does it do to you in the long term? Think medical bills, aging faster etc. There is absolutely no question that what we put into our bodies affects our health & the big food conglomerates along with the majority of hospitals & doctors want to keep your body in ill health so you keep coming to see them. Most insurance companies including Medicare & Medicaid do not pay for preventative care! That should tell you a lot!

Worming animals just for the sake of doing it is foolishness. I am NOT saying never to do it but we should do it with care & only if necessary. We are not an organic farm here & never make that claim but we do try to be responsible to the land & the animals by breeding hardy animals that can grow & thrive on very limited human interference.

Liz

Well said! And I agree!

 

[WildRoseBeef]

Thanks Southdown,

This article makes total sense. It is what is happening in humans too - WAY too much overuse of antibiotics hence the Superbugs. AND if you are eating commercially raised meat from the grocery store then you are most likely feeding yourself antibiotics & goodness know what else! Not a very pleasant thought. If the consumer really woke up to what is going on there would be a lot more folks moving to the country raising their own meat.


Liz

Liz, I have to disagree with you here. It's not the antibiotics in the meat that should be to blame--or heck, in milk and dairy products too--but how we humans make use of pharmaceuticals in such a care-free way that makes it worrisome. Antibiotics in meat and dairy products are at such low-to-nonexistent levels that they don't really pose any risk, not even enough to create Super-bacteria within our bodies. It's the sub-therapeutic use of antibiotics and other pharmaceuticals to treat chronic illnesses, allergies, etc. that is to worry. Of course we're seeing these antibiotics being used like this in feeder pigs, poultry and feedlot cattle, with the potential, and the ability of these "Superbugs" to propagate themselves.

But let's go back to the human side of things here. Pharmaceuticals are not just used to treat diseases, but to be used for recreational purposes or drug trafficing, for chronic illness, pain, allergies or other purposes I can't think of off hand. These pharmaceuticals are often dumped into our waterways and get into our water, and no amount of water treatment can or will remove these drugs. There was a two-hour show on the Great Lakes (Water something, can't remember the name) that discussed this and its implications on the water we rely on for our sustenance. It's these pharmaceuticals in the water that can cause problems like superbugs, cancer, kids reaching puberty earlier than normal, birth defects, etc.

Then you get the hospitals and the problems they have in there with creating Superbugs. That's even worse! That's where the other problems lie, because so much equipment and surfaces are cleaned with disinfectants and antimicrobial soaps and that to the point that it promotes the natural selection of bacteria and viruses to become resistant to these chemicals, thus causing problems in patients in these hospitals that are already sick to get even worse and die.

The thing is is that we can blame anything for our problems, but it really comes back to us: we're at fault here. It's so easy to blame commercially- and conventionally-produced meat and milk for causing our health issues and for being responsible for creating superbugs and this and that, but us humans are the ones that have caused these problems.

And of course, it's our responsibility to fix it as much as we can and however we can.

Of course it's nice to have the ability and make the excuse to raise animals for our own meat and milk, or find some producers that do such a thing, but not everyone is able to do this. There's only so much land in the country that is available for people to live on and raise their own animals on without getting into conflicts with neighbors and existing farmers. I do know what you're trying to say, and I agree, but I think it would be much safer to say that consumers would be NOT moving to the country to produce their own meat, but to look for more farm families and producers to purchase home-grown, farm-raised, "organically" raised edible animal products from.

The world evolved from the way it 'used' to be for a reason.

Not everyone can afford to live on 40 acres and be self sustaining-- actually very few people have the money, the brains, or the work ethic to do so.

it's not cheaper to raise it yourself, no matter how you look at it.

homegrown meat isn't all it's cracked up to be either, in almost every case all it does is put money in someone else's pocket-- and force the consumer to either have tons of freezer space-- or get burnt out eating the same thing over and over.

Not to mention, that land prices are way over 10k an acre throughout the cornbelt.

Have to agree with this completely! With now, 9 billion people in the world there's only so much land that can be had, and I very much doubt that we can get that many people living in the country on 5 or 10 acres to produce their own stock. This is the same thing in North America. You still need land for growing food crops on, land for wildlife, and there's certainly plenty of land in the world or in any country that's not worth its salt in being able to be used for any type of agriculture.

With this worming or "global worming" that Southdown brought up in that article problem, the only solution I can think of to battle this problem is not to "[graze] so many animals on a given patch of land [to] discourage transmission," since we all know what that can do to the land and our wallets, but to have more than one species grazing on a piece of land, or rather, graze the land in such a way that it promotes multi-species grazing. Turning on the tractor or quad and harrowing the pastures also helps too if the former isn't able to be accomplished. This way we CAN, for sure, treat for worms instead of "treat" for worms to prevent it.

Feed grass, not sure about how land is sold/purchased down in the states, but up here we have to contend with capital gains in the purchase/sale of land. That's something I've only been educated about by my brother, but will have to do more research on it to get more info.

 

[Cornish Heritage]

Another good thing about doing your own food is that you get some personal satisfaction from all your hard work. There is something to be said about doing work with your own two hands.

Absolutely It is hard work but SO worth it. Not only that we are training the next generation how to work hard. Recently we have been picking blackberries & plums - our kids are learning that it is hard work BUT the fruit is free & delicious, not to mention extremely healthy.

Our kids know who they are eating at dinnertime! Does that psychologically damage them?! No! They are learning a respect for the animals that we raise here & know that when the time comes that animal will have served us well alive & will serve us well dead also.

Our garden is growing very slowly this year but each time we pick a zucchini, yesterday we got our first cucumber, there is great excitement & everyone savors the few mouthfuls. None of that happens when you just pick one up at the grocery store.

Liz

 

[feed grass]

My statements are coming from a person who grew up on a 100 cow dairy, and 2500 acre crop farm- with 25 beef cows, 80 ewes, less than 10 milk goats, a litter of hogs, and all kinds of poultry... Right now, i can say I'm raising quail, Breeder Quality Cornish chickens, Show Quality Ameraucanas, and rabbits for eating-- as well as all the above... Plus throw in each hunting season...

With that broad of a selection, I still get bored with what's in the freezer from time to time-- and quite honestly, I can't think of any single freezer in America that's more diverse... It seems that we go in swings-- eat pork pretty solid for a couple of months, then switch to a lamb, then back to beef-- then it's deer season-- and the cycle continues.. it's kinda like the cereal that I eat in the morning-- Two days to a box- solid for a month-- and after 2 months I don't care to look at it ever again...

When I was in college, I both wrote a 14 page research paper against organic farming, then later worked on the University's Organic farm.. and not work for the USDA.. so I've got a pretty good idea of sustainability and the works. I actually believe, that if we wanted-- our entire family could be self sufficient-- hell even mom makes soap... but IMO-- that's not the best, or healthiest way of life, sorry.

To my Canadian friend that I invited-- I agree 100% with your statements-- which is why I invited you to this discussion... Land prices around here are mostly dicated by public auction, and cash rent. Just a couple of months ago, some river bottom land two counties away sold for 12k plus an acre. There was some land in Iowa topped the 14k mark a week later. Because of these prices and the demand-- even for average pasture ground-- I'm a firm believer that it's not cheaper to raise grassfed livestock-- as you and i have already discussed in a prior thread... Wife and I are very seriously thinking of buying a new place- 400k for basically 40 acres... tell me that's affordable and cheap??

 

[Southdown]

Another good thing about doing your own food is that you get some personal satisfaction from all your hard work. There is something to be said about doing work with your own two hands.

Absolutely It is hard work but SO worth it. Not only that we are training the next generation how to work hard. Recently we have been picking blackberries & plums - our kids are learning that it is hard work BUT the fruit is free & delicious, not to mention extremely healthy.

Our kids know who they are eating at dinnertime! Does that psychologically damage them?! No! They are learning a respect for the animals that we raise here & know that when the time comes that animal will have served us well alive & will serve us well dead also.

Our garden is growing very slowly this year but each time we pick a zucchini, yesterday we got our first cucumber, there is great excitement & everyone savors the few mouthfuls. None of that happens when you just pick one up at the grocery store.

Liz

Kids nowadays have no skills. It's a shame. I'm trying to learn the old-timey skills myself, haha.

 

[Southdown]

My statements are coming from a person who grew up on a 100 cow dairy, and 2500 acre crop farm- with 25 beef cows, 80 ewes, less than 10 milk goats, a litter of hogs, and all kinds of poultry... Right now, i can say I'm raising quail, Breeder Quality Cornish chickens, Show Quality Ameraucanas, and rabbits for eating-- as well as all the above... Plus throw in each hunting season...

With that broad of a selection, I still get bored with what's in the freezer from time to time-- and quite honestly, I can't think of any single freezer in America that's more diverse... It seems that we go in swings-- eat pork pretty solid for a couple of months, then switch to a lamb, then back to beef-- then it's deer season-- and the cycle continues.. it's kinda like the cereal that I eat in the morning-- Two days to a box- solid for a month-- and after 2 months I don't care to look at it ever again...

When I was in college, I both wrote a 14 page research paper against organic farming, then later worked on the University's Organic farm.. and not work for the USDA.. so I've got a pretty good idea of sustainability and the works. I actually believe, that if we wanted-- our entire family could be self sufficient-- hell even mom makes soap... but IMO-- that's not the best, or healthiest way of life, sorry.

To my Canadian friend that I invited-- I agree 100% with your statements-- which is why I invited you to this discussion... Land prices around here are mostly dicated by public auction, and cash rent. Just a couple of months ago, some river bottom land two counties away sold for 12k plus an acre. There was some land in Iowa topped the 14k mark a week later. Because of these prices and the demand-- even for average pasture ground-- I'm a firm believer that it's not cheaper to raise grassfed livestock-- as you and i have already discussed in a prior thread... Wife and I are very seriously thinking of buying a new place- 400k for basically 40 acres... tell me that's affordable and cheap??

Land prices are high. It's 9,000/acre at my place. It was worth the wait for me (several years of saving) to be able to get a small farm. If it's your dream, you will make it happen. But it's not for everyone and it sucks that it's so expensive. Again, it's about your priorities in life. Having a farm was priority #1 for us. Some people live in town with three stall garages and new cars parked inside. It's all in what you want really.

 

[feed grass]

My statements are coming from a person who grew up on a 100 cow dairy, and 2500 acre crop farm- with 25 beef cows, 80 ewes, less than 10 milk goats, a litter of hogs, and all kinds of poultry... Right now, i can say I'm raising quail, Breeder Quality Cornish chickens, Show Quality Ameraucanas, and rabbits for eating-- as well as all the above... Plus throw in each hunting season...

With that broad of a selection, I still get bored with what's in the freezer from time to time-- and quite honestly, I can't think of any single freezer in America that's more diverse... It seems that we go in swings-- eat pork pretty solid for a couple of months, then switch to a lamb, then back to beef-- then it's deer season-- and the cycle continues.. it's kinda like the cereal that I eat in the morning-- Two days to a box- solid for a month-- and after 2 months I don't care to look at it ever again...

When I was in college, I both wrote a 14 page research paper against organic farming, then later worked on the University's Organic farm.. and not work for the USDA.. so I've got a pretty good idea of sustainability and the works. I actually believe, that if we wanted-- our entire family could be self sufficient-- hell even mom makes soap... but IMO-- that's not the best, or healthiest way of life, sorry.

To my Canadian friend that I invited-- I agree 100% with your statements-- which is why I invited you to this discussion... Land prices around here are mostly dicated by public auction, and cash rent. Just a couple of months ago, some river bottom land two counties away sold for 12k plus an acre. There was some land in Iowa topped the 14k mark a week later. Because of these prices and the demand-- even for average pasture ground-- I'm a firm believer that it's not cheaper to raise grassfed livestock-- as you and i have already discussed in a prior thread... Wife and I are very seriously thinking of buying a new place- 400k for basically 40 acres... tell me that's affordable and cheap??

Land prices are high. It's 9,000/acre at my place. It was worth the wait for me (several years of saving) to be able to get a small farm. If it's your dream, you will make it happen. But it's not for everyone and it sucks that it's so expensive. Again, it's about your priorities in life. Having a farm was priority #1 for us. Some people live in town with three stall garages and new cars parked inside. It's all in what you want really.

I'd rather move back home-- where I'll inherit everything from my parent's, and 1/4 of everything from my grandparent's== only child I am... but at this point in time, that's not where our jobs are or might be??? Everything I talked about above-- I would get about 3/4's of eventually, free basically...

and hell- probably the most important part-- with our jobs-- we have to spend the money on something- may as well be critters that we can enjoy-- even if they don't make a profit...