Worms! Help!

[Southern by choice]

Safeguard doesnt work at all in my herd, but i am in Idaho. I have started my herd on Mollys Herbals. I will have fecals done in a few weeks to see what they have on board.

I find that interesting. The whole herd? or some individual goats?

 

[Heavenshalfacre]

I find that interesting. The whole herd? or some individual goats?

I havent used it on my little ones. But my 2 grown does....it has no effect. I have used Ivermectin and one other i cant remember the name of. Way too much resistance. Im going with Mollys herbals. I have heard wonderful things about the formula 1 and formula 2.
I have slacked off lately on the Diatomaceous Earth as well as i have been very distracted with upcoming move to Tx, but when i keep DE on the ground and in bedding and feed areas, the parasites dont do so well.
If i can go natural, i will do it. I am all for natural rather than chemical if it will work. I do the same with my horses. Chemical wormers are not working well anymore.

 

[NH homesteader]

I'm not an expert so I don't want to weigh in on the chemical vs herbal debate. What I would like is to see some research on herbal dewormer, as all I've heard is anecdotal evidence. I prefer organic and natural when I can but I am also leery of things that I haven't seen direct evidence. If that exists somewhere I am totally interested.

 

[Southern by choice]

I havent used it on my little ones. But my 2 grown does....it has no effect. I have used Ivermectin and one other i cant remember the name of. Way too much resistance. Im going with Mollys herbals. I have heard wonderful things about the formula 1 and formula 2.
I have slacked off lately on the Diatomaceous Earth as well as i have been very distracted with upcoming move to Tx, but when i keep DE on the ground and in bedding and feed areas, the parasites dont do so well.
If i can go natural, i will do it. I am all for natural rather than chemical if it will work. I do the same with my horses. Chemical wormers are not working well anymore.

Are you weighing and dosing properly? The fact that you have resistance to several classes is disturbing and that is generally seen from improper management. In a way it creates "superworms"
Do you do fecals before and after to check efficacy?
What are the EPG #'s before and after?

I like herbals, sadly we just see far too many who do no checks and little management so by the time we get called out thses goats are in very bad shape.
Most herbals are best used as preventative. The toxicity of many herbals can be very dangerous if not used properly as well.

 

[Heavenshalfacre]

I'm not an expert so I don't want to weigh in on the chemical vs herbal debate. What I would like is to see some research on herbal dewormer, as all I've heard is anecdotal evidence. I prefer organic and natural when I can but I am also leery of things that I haven't seen direct evidence. If that exists somewhere I am totally interested.

Well the evidence is in on the chemical wormers.
I will let you all know how it goes with my small herd and the Mollys. I go by others experiences. Mollys comes highly recommended. I have spoken with people who have used it for years and have very healthy herds and still do fecals or have them done to make sure things are ok. All i can do is give it a try myself. So far so good, but i just started.

 

[Heavenshalfacre]

I'm not an expert so I don't want to weigh in on the chemical vs herbal debate. What I would like is to see some research on herbal dewormer, as all I've heard is anecdotal evidence. I prefer organic and natural when I can but I am also leery of things that I haven't seen direct evidence. If that exists somewhere I am totally interested.

Well the evidence is in on the chemical wormers.
I will let you all know how it goes with my small herd and the Mollys. I go by others experiences. Mollys comes highly recommended. I have spoken with people who have used it for years and have very healthy herds and still do fecals or have them done to make sure things are ok. All i can do is give it a try myself. So far so good, but i just started.

 

[NH homesteader]

No offense but that is anecdotal.
I would like to see real research studies or at least a before and after egg count with all other factors (environment etc) adjusted for. I am not doubting herbal dewormers or what you are seeing in your herd, but "it works for me" isn't what I am looking for as far as evidence. I know all the chemical dewormers have been tested, and I also take into account personal stories like this where they don't work. But have herbal dewormers ever been subject to that sort of test? Not arguing, I am seriously curious.

 

[Epona142]

I have tested herbal dewormers on my own herd and a neighbor's herd (with her permission obviously) - in our cases, as obviously it can be different for everyone, there was little to no impact on the internal parasite populations. Fecals were taken a week before dosing, every week during a treatment cycle, and then for three weeks following.

A follow up using cydectin, on the other hand, was immediately effective to some degree in every goat.

Unfortunately, the precise notes I took on this "experiment," along with the notes on many many others, were lost in my 2012 house fire.

Someday I hope I have the ability to repeat all of those tests, which also included a group of kids raised on different types of milk/replacer.

 

[NH homesteader]

FYI my like to the above post was not me being against herbals... I just really like when people do experiments! Haha, in fact I really want herbals to work! I am a data geek though... Always want the proof . That's because of my pre-homestead and homeschooling job.

Anyway my current anecdotal evidence is that I added four new goats to my herd this year and the two who were treated chemically and with vaccinations have had far less issues than the organic herbal ones. They are also different breeds. So I won't say which caused that without proof.

 

[Southern by choice]

I am a data geek. I look at NUMBERS!

There are of course many variables. One reason we do mineral analysis on a sample % of our goats.

Copper levels make a difference in parasite control as well as resistance. Rearing/weaning protocol as well. Land management, climate, humidity, diet all make a difference. Nutritional deficiencies are big contributors to parasite ridden animals.

Identifying the worst resistant animals and culling is BEST!
Goats with poor resistance produce off spring that are also usually of poor resistance. Genetics play a role as well.

Heavy management and monitoring is necessary to take a herd from parasite issues to little to no parasite issues.

Understanding that there are two kinds of resistance and what each one means also helps the producer to understand what that means and the general overall affects to the herd.