how do i get lice eggs off my pygmy doe kids

[cmjust0]

I don't need a scientific study done to tell me that teatree is safe, I've used it for long enough to know. And to be honest after seeing "studies" that have been done on herbal remedies by the FDA, I don't really trust over half of them because they were paid for by corps selling synthetics. Ivermectin is a Synthetic version of a plant dirivative. I personally trust plant chemicals more than manmade ones. Plants don't have monetary motivations. Just my feelings.

My mother has found proof that the FDA fakes studies for big drug companies to make more money.

I don't exactly doubt that, and I'd love to see the proof...but it still wouldn't likely provide any insight or answers to my original question.

 

[mamaluv321]

How Toxic is Tea Tree Oil?


Purchase
Tea Tree Oil

Control
Mold & Mildew
with Tea Tree Oil Gel

SLS Free
Shampoo
(with tea tree oil)


Tea tree oil can be toxic

Just because it's natural, or an herb, or used in aromatherapy, or has potential health benefits, does not mean it's safe for all uses.

However, with 100% pure tea tree oil there is almost no risk of an allergic reaction



I'd like to share
this e-mail with you....

Hi Jim,

Just a note to tell you a story of mine about tea tree oil...I had a fungal infection a few years ago (intestinal) and couldn't get rid of it, and finally I thought I would try swallowing tea tree oil for a while and see if it helped.
It tasted dreadful and I ate it by putting a teaspoon on a bowl of ice cream, it was the only way I could get it down...after a few weeks of doing this,I read a green pharmacy book which said it was toxic to the liver and don't take it internally...well I am still here, but it scared me (and didn't cure the infection by the way,) but I thought I would just let you know about that.

A lot of people don't know it is poisonous to take by mouth. Well, only an idiot would force tea tree oil down by mouth anyway...but there you are.


Vanayssa



There is a ton of misinformation out there, including a few videos about ingesting tea tree oil, available online, that are giving out dangerous suggestions.

The idea repeated in the above letter is just one of them.
What Tea Tree Oil Uses Are Safe?

One use for tea tree oil that is safe is in the removal of head lice. As a topical or cosmetic application, the tea tree oil is used externally to get rid of the unwanted pests from children and homes.
Tea Tree Oil is a safer alternative to many other chemical lice removers including the highly toxic Lindane, now banned in may countries.

There are lots of products that are sold over the counter that are dangerous to human health, and many everyday products are suspected of containing cancer causing chemicals. The best means of avoiding cancer is to avoid the products that contain known carcinogens.

Since these days it is becoming increasingly difficult to completely eliminate such products from our daily lives, we should take responsibility for the things we do have control over. Choosing natural alternatives could be just one such solution.

How poisonous is Tea Tree Oil?

( or, how much will it take to kill me? )

Tea Tree Oil poisonings are fairly rare, but they do occur. However, there are more common oils and home remedies that are even more toxic. The most common is menthol, found in pain rubs, vaporizer gels and drops, cough drops, mouthwash, chewing tobacco, and a host of other products. I have not seen any information to suggest even one human death from tea tree oil.
The facts are, tea tree oil, like menthol, other essential oils, and many other substances, is graded on an LD 50 basis. This means, when tested on laboratory animals, the lethal dose needed to kill 50% of the animals is measured, and the results reported as LD50 at a certain number of grams or milligrams by weight.

Tea tree oil toxicity is equal to 1.9 g per kilogram, or about 1/5 teaspoon per pound of body weight. This is considered a lethal dose in 50% of persons or animals administered this dose.

This is why, it is common for folks who are overzealous and uninformed or who have received bad information to poison their own pets, particularly small cats and dogs.

Tea tree oil is toxic to cats. An average cat weighs seven to 12 pounds, and if toxicity were based solely on weight, all things being equal, somewhere between 1 1/2 to 3 teaspoons of tea tree oil would be lethal to 50% of cats given that dose. Before you go putting tea tree oil on your cat or dog, please read this...

Warning for dog and cat owners

But in cats all things are not equal, and their liver is not capable of processing even smaller amounts of tea tree oil. Poisonings are frequent.
Because of this cats should never be treated with anything more than about five drops of tea tree oil per teaspoon of carrier oil. The same thing applies to small, and some medium-sized dogs.

Remember, this is for topical application only. Using a cotton swab or cotton ball only.

http://www.teatreewonders.com/toxic.html
took me about 5 seconds to google this site, not a study but fairly informative at the very least.

 

[()relics]

just for the flip side of the coin: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/tea-tree-oil/NS_patient-teatreeoil

This is a report from 2010, not 2004. It has been compiled by The Mayo Clinic. Read through some of the headings in the left side margin...May want to take a very close look at the evidence section and note that most of the paragraphs end with something along the lines of futher research is needed or not enough data is present.
Also note the safety section, specifically the side effects and warnings paragraph.
I get the impression that this "natural substance" is really just a neuro-toxic poison that can be used as a home remedy, according to wives' tales. Dosages seem to be a little foggy, depending on the purity of the substance you are using, and no one can really be sure exactly how pure their oil is because it does not have to be labeled, again just from my reading. At least I know how much poison, or ivomec if you prefer, I am using because it is clearly labeled and the dosages are "right on the bottle"...really using a report from the EU from 2004...that is the best you could come up with.
The OP wanted to know about lice and goats...If you are a serious goat person with more than 2 animals there is only 1 answer ,or possibly a few different drugs, but certainly not tea tree oil...Incidently maybe you could use it on some of your goats kind of conduct your own study on exactly how effective it is or how sensitive goats are to it Before you suggest it as a treatment to some one else....JMO...

You really shouldn't use a website that is trying to sell tea tree oil as a basis for anything...The conflict of interest can get in the way of the truth sometimes

 

[ksalvagno]

Actually, there is no goat dosage on the Ivomec bottle. At least not mine.

Personally I'm not for or against anything but just pointing out that most drugs don't have a goat dosage on it along with no alpaca dosages. Not to mention that we dose goats and alpacas way higher than then the dosage for cattle and swine.

 

[cmjust0]

http://www.teatreewonders.com/toxic.html
took me about 5 seconds to google this site, not a study but fairly informative at the very least.

Informative...perhaps, depending on whether or not that's actual information. If it's accurate and tells the whole truth, then yes, it's very informative.

If not, well, then it's quite the opposite and would be something I'd consider misinformative.

Let's find out.

First of all, note how the author of says "laboratory animals" in regard to the 1.9g/kg lethal median dose, which -- to me, at least -- seems to suggest that he's speaking of a range of animals.

Well..I found the study he's obviously referencing in about 5 seconds with google.. Turns out, he conveniently forgot to mention a thing or two that came from the same study..

Toxicology

The dermal median lethal dose (LD50) of the essential oil in rabbits is >5.0mg/kg body weight, since 5.0mg/kg resulted in the deaths of two out of 10 treated rabbits (37). The oral LD50 in rats is 1.9g/kg body weight (range of doses 1.4-2.7 g/kg) (24, 25, 37, 38). The signs of severe toxicity are respiratory distress, and coma with diarrhoea (26, 38). A few cases of toxicosis after topical application of high doses of the essential oil to dogs and cats have been reported. Symptoms included central nervous system depression, weakness, and lack of coordination and muscle tremors that were resolved within 2-3 days after supportive treatment (39).

Ok, so, the threshold is WAY HIGH in rats...fair enough...but note it only took .5mg (5/1000th's of a gram) to hit the LD50 for rabbits.. Again, versus 1.9g (1900/1000ths of a gram) for rats..

That's, what...uh...let me get my calculator here.....HOLY CRAP ***380 TIMES LOWER*** THAN THE RAT LEVEL.

It does get even better, though... Look even more closely at the wording.. Notice how the rat's median lethal dose was oral, whereas the rabbits' level was dermal.

DERMAL!

In other words, you can take 1/380th the amount of tea tree oil it would take to kill the average rat through straight-up ingestion, put it on a rabbit's skin, and it will kill the average rabbit!



:/

And that's not even to speak of the CNS depression, weakness, loss of coordination, tremors, and all the other fun stuff that occurs at toxic, yet NON LETHAL dosages..


Informative? No. Not really.

Misinformation? Yeah, I think so. I absolutely think so. Seems to me that all someone has to do is look at the URL -- "teatreewonders" -- to come to the obvious conclusion that whoever's in charge of the place might just have a weeeeee bit of a pro-tea-tree-oil agenda..

But, yanno....that's just me thinking.




And, I gotta say...so far, none of this seems to be boding too well for tea tree oil's supposed safety versus ivermectin.

Just sayin'.

 

[cmjust0]

Actually, there is no goat dosage on the Ivomec bottle. At least not mine.

True...but you can go to Langston University's goat research web page and get off-label dosages on almost any anthelmintic out there..

Dosages they've determined through rigorous scientific study..



Last I checked, tea tree oil didn't make the list.

 

[mamaluv321]

FWIW, it's not just a nuerotoxin, it's actually anti-bactirial and anti fungal as well (nuerotoxins don't work on fungi) so not an old wives remedy.

 

[cmjust0]

The problem is that there are certain things being stated as fact in this thread, when they're really just personal preferences, opinions, experiences, and observations..

Now, I'm not saying it's you doing that, per se...it's just the simple fact that it's being done that's irking me at the moment. I think that's what has a couple of us on "high alert," so to speak..

For instance...when folks say things like:

'it isn't like giving a medication'
'you don't have to discard the milk'
'unnatural medications are toxic in a different way'

Statements like that either need to be backed up, or worded differently to clearly demonstrate that they're opinions.

We have lurkers, folks....lurkers who are liable to take your opinion as fact and put it to practice.

Remember that, always.

I think I can speak for some of the skeptics in saying that it's not so much that we don't believe it's even possible for tea tree oil to be safer....it's just that we don't trust simply being told it's safer, despite the fact that there's very little research out there and the fact that what research exists clearly demonstrates tea tree oil's ability to KILL ANIMALS -- sometimes at fairly low topical doses.

I know I've asked this about fourteen times now, but I feel it's necessary to reiterate it: Can anyone show me that tea tree oil is SAFER than ivermectin?

Hell...for that matter, can anyone show me that tea tree oil is at least as safe as ivermectin?

That's really all I'm looking for..

Anybody?

 

[Hollywood Goats]

cmjust0: are you trying to sell Invermectin or something? way are you pushing it so hard?

 

[cmjust0]

cmjust0: are you trying to sell Invermectin or something? way are you pushing it so hard?

I'm just questioning tea tree oil. The only reason ivermectin keeps coming up is because it's the logical comparison "chemical" product in this case.

I especially like having solid, reliable information when it comes to treating my goats. So far, I haven't gotten that from you or anyone else with regard to using tea tree oil.


I dunno.. If I were on y'alls side of the fence on this one, I truly believe I'd be saying "Wow... Maybe I should look into this a little more."...but that's me.

Guess I'm just objective like that.