Latestarter's ramblings/musings/gripes and grumbles.

[Goat Whisperer]

Poor @Latestarter his thread blew up again

 

[Devonviolet]

He was in ICU on a O2 monitor and an alarm went off whenever his levels dropped but they dropped so often that there was no way to determine why...could have been apnea or the pneumonia.

That's a tough one. If he's in the hospital for pneumonia, they are most likely to miss the obvious signs of sleep apnea, because they both cause hypoxia (low O2 levels).

In addition to talking about symptoms of pneumonia, the doctor or nurse should be asking questions, like do you snore? That's a biggie . . . Usually the spouse will say a resounding, "YES!!!" Many times they will say "We sleep in separate rooms, because he (or she) keeps me up all night, it's so loud!" Is your mouth dry in the morning? Do you wake up with a headache? Are you tired all the time? Do you have trouble remembering things? Another indicator is consistently elevated heart rate (usually over 100 beats per minute) and high blood pressure.

 

[Devonviolet]

@Devonviolet
There is a pour on eprinomectin "eprinex" but the "long range" is injectable.

I was just repeating what the Vet said. He said a lot, while we were talking. I think what he meant was that class of wormer (especially in goats) is pour on. But, again, he said it is not for goats.

 

[Goat Whisperer]

Sounds like the Vet was thinking of the wrong one…

If you read the links posted, you will see the injectable kind- the kind LS gave.

 

[Devonviolet]

Sounds like the Vet was thinking of the wrong one…

If you read the links posted, you will see the injectable kind- the kind LS gave.

He actually pulled the Vet's info up on the computer.

 

[Southern by choice]

I stopped by our Vet today, to pay our bill, and he spent a lot of time answering my questions. He owns a herd of Spanish/Boer cross goats. So is quite knowledgable about goats.

I asked him about Longrange. He said it is an ivermectin (aka maclid) type wormer, and is a "pour over" not injectable. This class of wormer has been used for so long, there is a lot of worm resistance with it. It is not labeled for use with goats, because it is a slow release wormer, and goats need to have a hard hit (with higher doses, than this gives being slow release) to be effective against goat's worms. If you use slow release, it puts out too low a dose over time, and since it doesn't kill most of the worms, they just become resistant. It also isn't good for dairy goats because it takes so long to clear the system, the milk is unusable for a long period of time. For these reasons, he said he would never give it to goats.

I was just repeating what the Vet said. He said a lot, while we were talking. I think what he meant was that class of wormer (especially in goats) is pour on. But, again, he said it is not for goats.

Sounds like the Vet was thinking of the wrong one…

If you read the links posted, you will see the injectable kind- the kind LS gave.

He actually pulled the Vet's info up on the computer.

looks to me they are similar - although the longrange may have a different compound... either way not good.
Poor LS- there goes all his milk for a long time. That really stinks. Try to get care and then this. These may be really good vets but just not great with goats. There are many cattle vets that will tell their clients they don't really know goats but will do their best- these are the ones that you can work with. Hopefully LS you can share the info without them getting their nickers in a wad... you never know.
Glad they are dewormed though and they are getting tested! That is a great turnaround for the labs!

from the info-http://www.wormx.info/longrange
LongRange™ contains the drug eprinomectin, which is also found in the cattle pour-on product Eprinex®. Eprinomectin is in the same family of drugs as ivermectin (Ivomec®). This family of drugs, the macrocyclic lactones (or MLs), also includes the drugs doramectin (Dectomax®) and moxidectin (Cydectin®).


The disturbing thing to me is that even in the literature for the longrange( http://thelongrangelook.com/legacy-assets/pdf/longrange-pi.pdf)
It clearly states- Animal Safety Warnings and Precautions The product is likely to cause tissue damage at the site of injection, including possible granulomas and necrosis. These reactions have disappeared without treatment. Local tissue reaction may result in trim loss of edible tissue at slaughter. Observe cattle for injection site reactions. If injection site reactions are suspected, consult your veterinarian. This product is not for intravenous or intramuscular use. Protect product from light. LONGRANGE® (eprinomectin) has been developed specifically for use in cattle only. This product should not be used in other animal species.

 

[Bruce]

Ouch.
I guess @Latestarter goes from "I have too much milk" back to "I have no milk".

 

[OneFineAcre]

Welll...
LS I would speak to the vet
Did you tell them the doe was in milk?
If the meat withdrawal is 48 days milk is always less
Maybe they can give you some guidance
It's in the Ivermectin family
Which they do give to people

 

[Latestarter]

OK... I had my own concerns with this as I specifically asked her today about the wormer she used and the fact that the literature specifically says NOT to use in dairy cows because milk withdrawal times had NOT been established. She said she needed to check, left for a bit, then came back and said there is no withdrawal time and that I could use the milk right now. Sorry, that does NOT sound right to me and now I'm guessing to be on the safe side I'll wait at least 30 days. What do y'all think about that plan? I'm seriously reconsidering my initial evaluation of this vet. <sigh>... my luck... too good to be true it seems. I'll start looking around for another large animal vet close by that DOES have goat experience.

It was specifically the injectable, not the pour on. I made sure of that before I got it. Had I known about all this before hand, I would have asked about a different brand/type of dewormer to use. As expected, the bed of the truck was coated with droppings by the time I got to the clinic. I asked the techs if it was too soon after the deworming to do a re-float and was told it was... Need to wait a week to 10 days. So I'll get it done some time after the week of the 4th. (maybe at a different clinic? )

So Mel went in for his meet and greet today. He weighed 138 pounds. I was hit with the "professional" requirement that he have a heart worm blood test before they would write a scrip for the meds. I explained that he was just dosed with his last chewables and that a test should not be necessary. She said she didn't want me to feel like I was being forced to get the test, to which I replied but I AM being forced as you won't give me a scrip without it. Bottom line I had to (chose to) pay the $15 for the blood test in order to get him the 6 month shot ($70 compared to $160 or $270 for the 2 most common brands of chewables - 6 month supply), which of course came back negative, exactly as I told them it would. The shot is also supposed to work on round and whip worms so counts as a deworming for him. I also asked specifically if this shot would be too much since he just had the chewables... she replied no.

He also got his rabies shot. I kinda jokingly asked her if he'd need to be tested for rabies before she could give him that shot... she replied no, to which I said, oh, well that's good, he'd be about useless without a brain... Perhaps that wasn't such a good exchange looking back...

Mel was a champ and lived up to his name. Such a laid back (Mellow) great pup When we got home he didn't even think about exploring... when he came down out of the back seat of the truck he headed straight for the door into the air conditioned house and crashed out on the nice cool wood floor. He's spent most of the afternoon recouping from the arduous encounter/evolution. He was a huge hit with the staff and other customers. One lady actually took pictures of him to show her husband.

 

[OneFineAcre]

I think 30 days at least on the milk
And as to the comment about needing the brain as to the rabies test yeah you might want to chill on that