Mini Horses
Herd Master
Beyond all this --
How'd your farm visit go...?
How'd your farm visit go...?
Questions about milk & cream
- Thread starter dairydreams
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #42
dairydreams
Overrun with beasties
wow a lot to respond to here, thanks!!
I suppose the reason I am thinking of a dairy animal is because I have the desire to do it. Does that make sense? I want it as a hobby. And I like that this hobby isn't just something I'd do, it's the experience and bonding with animals and providing for the family and possibly having products to sell (I by no means expect to make a profit, but to take a chunk out of costs would be nice). Yes, 100% just picking up herd shares weekly would be easier to do. No doubt about it. But I also like the idea of knowing where the milk comes from specifically and how the animals are treated, as well as the self-sufficiency aspect of it all. That is, after all, a huge reason why we moved out of Northern Virignia and into the country.
To answer some questions...
My husband and I have 3 boys, and all 5 of use drink milk. Right now we go through about a half gallon a day just in drinking (we also go through a lot of cheese and butter and definitely cream). My younger two would probably be happy living off of nothing but cheese.
Ironically, my husband says he doesn't like the goat milk but chevre is one of his favorite cheeses. We also have recently been sampling some other goat cheese (pepper jack, feta) and he is very much enjoying those as well.
I actually did goat chores with the "goat lady" (where we get our share) and I know that she chills the milk immediately. As soon as it's milked, she puts it in her freezer in her milk parlor (it's a mini fridge that sits next to the stanchion). I could be wrong about the order but I believe she chills it in the freezer for an hour or so, then removes it to filter and put in the fridge. Something like that. Now that said, I also know that the milk we pick up is sometimes a couple of days old (she dates the bottles). It is definitely interesting and notable that the flavor could be that different in just 24-48 hours.
I do not know what she feeds them, outside of "hay"--and of course grain on the stand. I don't know the specifics but will certainly ask.
She raises Nigerians (show quality -- she's huge into genetics and has a breeding program for looks, as well as production), and also has a couple of lamanchas. She milks them, then mixes the milk to get a better taste and have the quantity to supply her herdshare holders.
--
I did visit the mini nubian/jersey cow farm yesterday and though she operates both off of very limited room, I am definitely leaning towards goats now. It just seems more suitable for our set up. I agree that a large dry lot and bringing in hay for a couple of dairy goats seems like the best arrangement to start with.
Also regarding the time to do things, we already homestead and homeschool...we are here most of the time. We very, very rarely go on vacation. I'm not sure if I mentioned it here but we just took our first family vacation ever this year. My husband only works a part time schedule so we are both home the majority of the time. Every once in awhile I go out of town to visit my Mom but it's rare that we travel together. Usually one of us is here all the time. We are past the age of partying and bars and really any late night life at all...just not us! Our idea of a perfect evening is on the couch sipping on tea next to a fire in the wood stove, haha.
--
Question for you all...how did you get started with dairy animals?
I am just scared of going about it wrong, or getting all the fencing up and investing in everything and regretting it or screwing it up!
I suppose the reason I am thinking of a dairy animal is because I have the desire to do it. Does that make sense? I want it as a hobby. And I like that this hobby isn't just something I'd do, it's the experience and bonding with animals and providing for the family and possibly having products to sell (I by no means expect to make a profit, but to take a chunk out of costs would be nice). Yes, 100% just picking up herd shares weekly would be easier to do. No doubt about it. But I also like the idea of knowing where the milk comes from specifically and how the animals are treated, as well as the self-sufficiency aspect of it all. That is, after all, a huge reason why we moved out of Northern Virignia and into the country.
To answer some questions...
My husband and I have 3 boys, and all 5 of use drink milk. Right now we go through about a half gallon a day just in drinking (we also go through a lot of cheese and butter and definitely cream). My younger two would probably be happy living off of nothing but cheese.
Ironically, my husband says he doesn't like the goat milk but chevre is one of his favorite cheeses. We also have recently been sampling some other goat cheese (pepper jack, feta) and he is very much enjoying those as well.
I actually did goat chores with the "goat lady" (where we get our share) and I know that she chills the milk immediately. As soon as it's milked, she puts it in her freezer in her milk parlor (it's a mini fridge that sits next to the stanchion). I could be wrong about the order but I believe she chills it in the freezer for an hour or so, then removes it to filter and put in the fridge. Something like that. Now that said, I also know that the milk we pick up is sometimes a couple of days old (she dates the bottles). It is definitely interesting and notable that the flavor could be that different in just 24-48 hours.
I do not know what she feeds them, outside of "hay"--and of course grain on the stand. I don't know the specifics but will certainly ask.
She raises Nigerians (show quality -- she's huge into genetics and has a breeding program for looks, as well as production), and also has a couple of lamanchas. She milks them, then mixes the milk to get a better taste and have the quantity to supply her herdshare holders.
--
I did visit the mini nubian/jersey cow farm yesterday and though she operates both off of very limited room, I am definitely leaning towards goats now. It just seems more suitable for our set up. I agree that a large dry lot and bringing in hay for a couple of dairy goats seems like the best arrangement to start with.
Also regarding the time to do things, we already homestead and homeschool...we are here most of the time. We very, very rarely go on vacation. I'm not sure if I mentioned it here but we just took our first family vacation ever this year. My husband only works a part time schedule so we are both home the majority of the time. Every once in awhile I go out of town to visit my Mom but it's rare that we travel together. Usually one of us is here all the time. We are past the age of partying and bars and really any late night life at all...just not us! Our idea of a perfect evening is on the couch sipping on tea next to a fire in the wood stove, haha.
--
Question for you all...how did you get started with dairy animals?
I am just scared of going about it wrong, or getting all the fencing up and investing in everything and regretting it or screwing it up!
Last edited:
Mini Horses
Herd Master
Choose your breed, visit the animal, test her milk...actually milk her. Then, jump in!! I like to buy 2 buddies at a time from same herd. Then there's no "make a friend issue". 
- Thread starter
- #44
dairydreams
Overrun with beasties
Choose your breed, visit the animal, test her milk...actually milk her. Then, jump in!! I like to buy 2 buddies at a time from same herd. Then there's no "make a friend issue".
This is exactly how I go about purchasing ducks and chickens (well, minus milking them first)
Baymule
Herd Master
I’m a jump in the deep end, learn how to swim type personality. LOL. I’m seldom ready for anything, I’m always behind the 8 ball.
So, you put up fence, get all ready for goats and then decide it’s not for you, not to worry! That shelter and fenced area will quickly fill with something else! I just wanted to put your mind at rest. Hahaha! Personally I think you will fall in love with your goats and thoroughly enjoy them. Make butter and cheese. Do as @Ridgetop said, drink the freshest milk, then make cheese! Or get a pig and mix the feed with milk.
So, you put up fence, get all ready for goats and then decide it’s not for you, not to worry! That shelter and fenced area will quickly fill with something else! I just wanted to put your mind at rest. Hahaha! Personally I think you will fall in love with your goats and thoroughly enjoy them. Make butter and cheese. Do as @Ridgetop said, drink the freshest milk, then make cheese! Or get a pig and mix the feed with milk.
Alaskan
Herd Master
X2.
It will not be wasted.
My best goat was my pure bred Saanen, that I got for free... she was listed on Facebook maybe?
She was free, so I drove out and got her.
She wasn't even in milk, I think she had never been bred....
I did test her for disease, wormed her, found a goat person with a buck to breed her to (she NEVER showed signs of heat, but I was allowed to drop her off for a month), and then she kidded great and produced milk for YEARS.
But... I guess what I am saying is... jumping right in isn't always so bad....
Do test for disease....
One of the goats that I randomly bought was positive for disease... so I sold her for dog food.
Not the end of the world. It all worked out fine.
Ridgetop
Herd Master
We moved from our house where we had fruit trees, a great garden, rabbits and chickens to a larger place so our 4 (then) kids could have ponies. After raising chickens for eggs, rabbits for meat, and fruit and veggies which I canned for use all year, the next step was to keep goats for milk. I did not want a cow since it was too large, and our property was too hilly. 2 dairy does would give us enough milk for everything we needed for the 4-H household, and our steep, hilly property was good goat country. I read up about goats, disease, etc. before looking for my dairy does. Our children were already in 4-H, and wanted to do larger livestock so getting registered dairy goats would be perfect. We first bought a very pretty Toggenburg dry yearling doe from a local lady who used them (along with Dorset sheep) for training herding dogs. A week later our club leader told me that she had learned under no circumstances buy a Toggenburg since they had horrible tasting milk!
Back to the ads to find Nubian milk goats for house milk. Margot, the Togg, became DS1's 4-H show goat. She was lovely, and had a beautiful udder when she freshened, but to eventually drink her milk I had to load it up with chocolate powder which sort of lessened the health benefits.
LOL
2 weeks later I found a pair of 2-year-old Nubian milking does about 2 hours away. They were for sale together or separately, were high production milkers, and in their first lactation. The owner had bred them herself, raised them, and bred them to kid in order to put a milk star on their sire. (This is a specific program to determine high yielding dairy animals by measuring their milk output in a 10 month lactation.) I went down to see them with my 2 youngest children. We drank the milk - very good and just like rich cow's milk, checked out the dairy records, vaccination records, blood tests for disease, and papers. I bought both of them, but we had to wait to bring them home until they finished obtaining their milk stars. They finished those requirements in another couple months and I went back to pick them up. The breeder sold them with a guaranteed breeding and told me that she would take them back each year and board them to breed. This meant that I did not have to keep a buck. Eureka! This breeder was also a good source of information as well and we became friends. My older daughter claimed these sweet droopy-eared girls for her show goats. Their names were Sparkler and Firecracker, having been born on July 4th.
These twin sisters were the foundation of DD2's show herd which she eventually passed on to DS3. They milked an average of 12-16 gallons of delicious high butterfat milk daily for a ten-month lactation (we kept daily milk records), were easy milkers, their udders held up, they both produced quads every kidding until they died of old age. They were not terrific show quality goats, but were certainly nice enough to show, were nice to handle, and easy keepers. When they got out of their pen, my 3 and 5 year olds could take them by the collar and put them back alone. We were really lucky to find them.
Since we don't have pasture - being in dry southern California, we fenced off 100' x 200' which already had a large 12'x12' shelter for their area. We fed alfalfa only except for the lactating does who received their grain ration on the stanchion while milking. Occasionally the goats were turned out in the open field adjoining our property to graze on the fleshy weed growth for several hours. Our children had to stay with them so they didn't wander away.
The problem with dairy goats is that you fall in love with them. They have to be bred and produce adorable kids to produce milk. To paraphrase that famous potato chip ad "you can't keep just one". In our case it was many more. We kept the doe kids and ate the bucks. Later, DS1 decided that milking 2x daily was not a chore he liked so he sold his Toggs and went into sheep. Later still, DS2 bought LaManchas and started his herd. DS3 kept on with the Nubians.
By the time they graduated from high school and sold out, we had almost 150-200 dairy goats of different ages. Mainly because we had a majority of doe kids born that year. They all went to one person who was getting back into dairy goats. During the almost 20 years we bred and raised dairy goats, we did every aspect from breeding, kidding, milk test, showing, AI, semen collection, linear appraisal, etc. We bottle fed all the kids, drew blood for testing, etc. and learned a huge amount about every aspect of nutrition, and kidding. When you have goats that produce triplets and quads routinely, the kids often get tangled up and you have to sort them out in utero so they can be born.
Eventually with the number of goats being milked twice daily, we sold all the buck kids for meat, and used the massive amounts of milk (15-20 gallons daily) to raise bull calves for sale. DS3 separated the cream and made ice cream but I never made cheese. By then our kids were so active with multiple breeding programs that I did not have time. I did can milk to use for the kids and calves when we had surplus. With 3 large freezers I ran out of freezer space!
Dairy goats are labor intensive but rewarding, giving you love, milk, and meat. We currently have White Dorper sheep and enjoy them, but our family have never stopped loving dairy goats.
If you want to supply your own home raised milk to go with the rest of your home raised food, you will love dairy goats. Get a standard size breed, milk twice a day, pasteurize and bottle feed the kids (CAE), let the boys show them in 4-H Fairs, and the boys can learn to milk. Livestock is a great way to teach responsibility and work ethics to kids.
When buying your first dairy goats, make sure to check all the paperwork from the breeder, ask for blood test results (disease) and milk records. Check the paperwork and if the papers are not available don't bother to buy. Try miking the goat you are thinking of buying and taste the milk from those goats.
Start with 2 goats since a single goat will be lonely and will cry constantly. With 2 does you can breed 2-3 months apart. This will stagger the kiddings so you can dry the does up at different times and still have them milk for a full 10-month lactation, ensuring a constant milk supply all year. If you don't want to keep doe kids, try breeding the dairy does to a Boer buck for meat kids. Then put all the kids in the freezer. Plan to feed in a dry lot situation with occasional times to forage outside the pen.
One thing you will have to be careful about is predators. Keeping the goats in a pen near the house and locking them up at night in their shed will help. Eventually you may want to look into getting some sort of livestock guardian dog if predators become a problem.
Back to the ads to find Nubian milk goats for house milk. Margot, the Togg, became DS1's 4-H show goat. She was lovely, and had a beautiful udder when she freshened, but to eventually drink her milk I had to load it up with chocolate powder which sort of lessened the health benefits.
LOL2 weeks later I found a pair of 2-year-old Nubian milking does about 2 hours away. They were for sale together or separately, were high production milkers, and in their first lactation. The owner had bred them herself, raised them, and bred them to kid in order to put a milk star on their sire. (This is a specific program to determine high yielding dairy animals by measuring their milk output in a 10 month lactation.) I went down to see them with my 2 youngest children. We drank the milk - very good and just like rich cow's milk, checked out the dairy records, vaccination records, blood tests for disease, and papers. I bought both of them, but we had to wait to bring them home until they finished obtaining their milk stars. They finished those requirements in another couple months and I went back to pick them up. The breeder sold them with a guaranteed breeding and told me that she would take them back each year and board them to breed. This meant that I did not have to keep a buck. Eureka! This breeder was also a good source of information as well and we became friends. My older daughter claimed these sweet droopy-eared girls for her show goats. Their names were Sparkler and Firecracker, having been born on July 4th.
These twin sisters were the foundation of DD2's show herd which she eventually passed on to DS3. They milked an average of 12-16 gallons of delicious high butterfat milk daily for a ten-month lactation (we kept daily milk records), were easy milkers, their udders held up, they both produced quads every kidding until they died of old age. They were not terrific show quality goats, but were certainly nice enough to show, were nice to handle, and easy keepers. When they got out of their pen, my 3 and 5 year olds could take them by the collar and put them back alone. We were really lucky to find them.
Since we don't have pasture - being in dry southern California, we fenced off 100' x 200' which already had a large 12'x12' shelter for their area. We fed alfalfa only except for the lactating does who received their grain ration on the stanchion while milking. Occasionally the goats were turned out in the open field adjoining our property to graze on the fleshy weed growth for several hours. Our children had to stay with them so they didn't wander away.
The problem with dairy goats is that you fall in love with them. They have to be bred and produce adorable kids to produce milk. To paraphrase that famous potato chip ad "you can't keep just one". In our case it was many more. We kept the doe kids and ate the bucks. Later, DS1 decided that milking 2x daily was not a chore he liked so he sold his Toggs and went into sheep. Later still, DS2 bought LaManchas and started his herd. DS3 kept on with the Nubians.
By the time they graduated from high school and sold out, we had almost 150-200 dairy goats of different ages. Mainly because we had a majority of doe kids born that year. They all went to one person who was getting back into dairy goats. During the almost 20 years we bred and raised dairy goats, we did every aspect from breeding, kidding, milk test, showing, AI, semen collection, linear appraisal, etc. We bottle fed all the kids, drew blood for testing, etc. and learned a huge amount about every aspect of nutrition, and kidding. When you have goats that produce triplets and quads routinely, the kids often get tangled up and you have to sort them out in utero so they can be born.
Eventually with the number of goats being milked twice daily, we sold all the buck kids for meat, and used the massive amounts of milk (15-20 gallons daily) to raise bull calves for sale. DS3 separated the cream and made ice cream but I never made cheese. By then our kids were so active with multiple breeding programs that I did not have time. I did can milk to use for the kids and calves when we had surplus. With 3 large freezers I ran out of freezer space!
Dairy goats are labor intensive but rewarding, giving you love, milk, and meat. We currently have White Dorper sheep and enjoy them, but our family have never stopped loving dairy goats.
If you want to supply your own home raised milk to go with the rest of your home raised food, you will love dairy goats. Get a standard size breed, milk twice a day, pasteurize and bottle feed the kids (CAE), let the boys show them in 4-H Fairs, and the boys can learn to milk. Livestock is a great way to teach responsibility and work ethics to kids.
When buying your first dairy goats, make sure to check all the paperwork from the breeder, ask for blood test results (disease) and milk records. Check the paperwork and if the papers are not available don't bother to buy. Try miking the goat you are thinking of buying and taste the milk from those goats.
Start with 2 goats since a single goat will be lonely and will cry constantly. With 2 does you can breed 2-3 months apart. This will stagger the kiddings so you can dry the does up at different times and still have them milk for a full 10-month lactation, ensuring a constant milk supply all year. If you don't want to keep doe kids, try breeding the dairy does to a Boer buck for meat kids. Then put all the kids in the freezer. Plan to feed in a dry lot situation with occasional times to forage outside the pen.
One thing you will have to be careful about is predators. Keeping the goats in a pen near the house and locking them up at night in their shed will help. Eventually you may want to look into getting some sort of livestock guardian dog if predators become a problem.
Ridgetop
Herd Master
Sorry - forgot to address these items:
Always strain first then chill. Straining removes all hair, dirt, and anything else that could taint the milk. Chilling before straining leaves any foreign contaminant in the milk and can ruin the flavor. Hopefully she is straining first into clean glass containers before chilling.
Goat milk changes flavor within 24 hours. It is still fine for use in cooking, making cheese, pasteurizing and bottle feeding baby goats. Goat milk is best drunk within the first 24 hours (preferably first 12).
Mixing all the milk together is not a problem unless one of the goats or breeds has off flavored milk. Or one of the individual goats has off flavored milk. Then the off flavor will permeate all the milk. I have had LaMancha milk (DS2's herd were LaManchas) and it was good. I have never had Nigerian milk so can't comment. Why does she "mix the milk for better taste"? Does some of the milk not taste good? If some of the milk had an unpleasant flavor, it could be affecting the flavor of all the milk after mixing together.
- Thread starter
- #49
dairydreams
Overrun with beasties
I honestly can't remember the order of chilling as this was the year before last when I observed.
I believe her thought process was the higher butterfat in the ND's milk would bring a richness/creaminess to the Lamancha milk and kind of compliment each other--not necessarily mask a bad taste, but moreso enhance the milk flavor.
This is absolutely interesting that the flavor alters within such a short time frame. I have had goat milk from this breeder that was on the shelf for a shorter time but never less than a day. I am so intrigued by this!
What do y'all suggest if I can't sample milk from the goat I intend to buy -- for example if it's not currently in milk?
Also does milk have to be pasturized to feed to babies? Pardon my ignorance by why is that?
Ridgetop thanks for the response on your experience. I am going to look further into 4-H. I started to a couple of years ago with my oldest because he was very much into ducks, and it was because of him we ended up getting chickens, too. He is high-functioning autistic and tends to dive deep into subjects he like (he knew everything there was to know about space, then specifically expo-planets, then ducks, then chickens...). (Sadly for me) his interests changed and he got into video games and the birds just don't do it for him anymore. I'm hoping if maybe he joins 4-h that might spark his interests again. At one point he wanted to start a breeding program of chickens, or possibly just breed a specific breed he liked. Maybe there's still hope! And my 6 year old is at an age I that I think getting him started might be a good idea. Since he likes the goat milk so much...maybe, just maybe............
And y'all are right about the fence. We're a homestead/small farm after all. You NEVER run out of use for a fence!
I believe her thought process was the higher butterfat in the ND's milk would bring a richness/creaminess to the Lamancha milk and kind of compliment each other--not necessarily mask a bad taste, but moreso enhance the milk flavor.
This is absolutely interesting that the flavor alters within such a short time frame. I have had goat milk from this breeder that was on the shelf for a shorter time but never less than a day. I am so intrigued by this!
What do y'all suggest if I can't sample milk from the goat I intend to buy -- for example if it's not currently in milk?
Also does milk have to be pasturized to feed to babies? Pardon my ignorance by why is that?
Ridgetop thanks for the response on your experience. I am going to look further into 4-H. I started to a couple of years ago with my oldest because he was very much into ducks, and it was because of him we ended up getting chickens, too. He is high-functioning autistic and tends to dive deep into subjects he like (he knew everything there was to know about space, then specifically expo-planets, then ducks, then chickens...). (Sadly for me) his interests changed and he got into video games and the birds just don't do it for him anymore. I'm hoping if maybe he joins 4-h that might spark his interests again. At one point he wanted to start a breeding program of chickens, or possibly just breed a specific breed he liked. Maybe there's still hope! And my 6 year old is at an age I that I think getting him started might be a good idea. Since he likes the goat milk so much...maybe, just maybe............
And y'all are right about the fence. We're a homestead/small farm after all. You NEVER run out of use for a fence!
Ridgetop
Herd Master
If your husband doesn't like extra rich foods, he may be able to taste the extra butterfat in the milk and this may contribute to his dislike of goat milk. As DS1 got older he stopped liking rich foods (including chocolate!) and now won't even eat much ice cream. DS1 can taste the cream in the milk.
4-H would be excellent for your son. It would give him social experiences within the club/project without being overwhelming. The project work is done at home with occasional meetings with others in the project and the project leader. Club meetings of the entire membership are held once a month. If his main interest is computers and building video games, etc. there are "self-determined" projects that you and he can outline and he can carry out on his own with you as the project leader. He can do as much or as little in the program as you and he determine is comfortable for him.
As to pasteurization, there is a disease called Caprine Encephalitic Arthritis (CAE for short) that occurs in goats. It is contagious through blood and body liquids. Opinions differ on whether close contact can pass it on, however, there is no doubt that goat kids drinking milk from a CAE positive doe will contract the disease. THIS DISEASE DOES NOT COMMUNICATE TO HUMANS.
Goats removed from mothers at birth and fed on heat treated colostrum and pasteurized milk will not have CAE. Any goat with CAE (detectable in carriers by blood test) should be removed from the herd. (See @rachels.haven journal) There are other goat and livestock diseases but this is the one you want to be aware of when buying your goats. If the breeder tests, ask to see the printout.
CAE is a crippling disease that can range from no or minimal signs to complete crippling of the joints and inability to walk or move. Does infected with CAE can also have trouble kidding, can produce dead kids, etc. Goats from a CAE infected herd are hard to sell. Knowledgeable people usually know suspected breeders. If the herd is infected, the breeder might say "MY goats don't have CAE so I don't have to test'. This can be either wishful thinking or be deliberate. The only true way to know is through annual blood testing. If the herd is clean, the breeder will be happy to show you the lab test results.
If you blood testing annually for the disease and your does are negative, you can leave kids on them. Our family was doing a straight dairy project so always removed the babies and bottle fed them. Bottle feeding makes the kids super friendly. We find working with bottle fed goats easier. And your kids will love bottle feeding them.
