It is so saddening to see LGDS jump from home to home where I live

[Southern by choice]

About 25- 30 years ago there were 2 imports... Sch 3 dogs.
The breeding went well. I went to see the litter at 3 weeks... it was disturbing, by 5 weeks these dogs were showing very bad traits. No abuse. Each dog was sold to future working and or pet homes. By working I mean Schutzhund.
These dogs and pups were in the tens of thousandsof dollars... so they were good stock not "junk"

By 6 months every dog was returned. For whatever reason the two dogs together although highly trained and great genetics didn't mesh.
This litter always stuck in my mind. These dogs were so dangerous there wasn't another option.

I have seen far too many dogs kept alive that was based solely on the emotions of the human and it resulted in a bad ending.

Brain tumors are one such case. The people couldn't bare putting the dog down. Yet that tumor pressed and pressed. This time though it came to euthanizing the dog after it mauled their 2 year old.

Another... dog hit by a car rear paralyzed... they decided a ramp and a wheelchair etc... so while this was being addressed the dog was defecating and urinating... they struggled to hose it off and clean it... dog got flystrike and was being eaten away by maggots.
Their "heart" may have had good intentions but the 13 year old dog should have had more dignity in death than that. It was selfish of the people.

Last year I was called about a dog. 3x owners each time it had bit.
They worked with the dog but to no avail. My recommendation- put it down. I know you do not understand this. This dog posed a serious threat to anyone who would adopt it. The dog was relinquished. I saw the ad up the following week. Long story short, there was no mention of any of it's history. Understand that these shelters usually do not have qualified assessors. Do not work with the dogs but spin them. Yet they have this little clause... they aren't liable. They SHOULD be! Proper channels did deal with the situation and rightly so.

A couple years ago 60 people were exposed to rabies from a adopt a pet event. The pup hadn't been quarantined long enough and had rabies.

I am a huge advocate for the humane treatment of animals.
I loathe contraptions people put on their LGD's- unnecessary.
Shock collars as well. I do not believe dogs are disposable.

Why do you think I am working on getting this pup out of the shelter?

And yes, $30,000 on a dog I do think is morally wrong.
I would rather support a shelter for abused women/children.
I would also support St. Judes
I would also support our wounded soldiers.
I would also support families with extreme medical from their child's illness.

However- your money - your choice.

 

[cjc]

@Southern by choice no I would give it the life it deserves and I would NEVER buy a dog with a "If" involved. If you don't do this then you get the boot. That is something I just would never stand for. Not with a domesticated pet like a dog.

 

[misfitmorgan]

Imagine how many shelter dogs/cats you could have saved or supported with that 30k..that you spent on your 1 dog...many would call that selfish of you. Saving 1 when you could save many.

 

[cjc]

Imagine how many shelter dogs/cats you could have saved or supported with that 30k..that you spent on your 1 dog...many would call that selfish of you. Saving 1 when you could save many.

It's called rehabilitation. I will not give up on my dog until her body and health has given up on her. Don't pass judgment on me for saving my animal.

 

[Southern by choice]

@Southern by choice no I would give it the life it deserves and I would NEVER buy a dog with a "If" involved. If you don't do this then you get the boot. That is something I just would never stand for. Not with a domesticated pet like a dog.

You make the assumption that a person is going into something with an "if " mentality. That is not always the case. Those that do that should never own any animal. I am referring to the purpose part of the earlier post.

You seem to not understand that all dogs were bred for purpose and have now become domesticated.

You CLEARLY would not take the dog and put the dog in a better environment for the dog. This makes no sense.
Yet you say you care about the animal. So on a farm environment where there are gunshots, hunting etc you would make the dog suffer through extreme anxiety of having to listen to that then place that dog in a loving home without the stress.

Truly the "if" it doesn't work out is far greater in the pet industry than in the LGD community.

Curious. Your dog... what breed was it? The one you couldn't train to poultry?

I don't think you even realize we are all on the same team... trying to do the best for each animal.

 

[norseofcourse]

One of the reasons I got out of rescue after 20+ years was that emotions and passions run extremely high when discussing animals. For the vast majority of people, the underlying goal is to help animals - but it's sometimes surprising that people's definition of helping varies so tremendously. And there's not one sure, absolutely right answer for everyone and every situation.

I've known rescue groups advise a fellow rescuer to try and rehabilitate a dog that had already had at least two *unprovoked* attacks on a child (one said it was cureable with clicker training and cheerios).

I am not trying to get into this debate - except to say that please realize this is a highly charged subject, and we're using a medium that does not allow tone of voice or facial expression, and these posts are coming pretty fast, so some things may not be said as clearly and completely as possible. It's very easy to read more into a post than was meant to be there.

 

[norseofcourse]

One of my first dogs was one I got from the rescue group I was with at the time. He came in as an unneutered 2-year old shepherd mix that had been tied outside to a tree pretty much his whole life. From his behavior, I believe he was teased/hit by neighborhood kids (yeah, I know, assuming - but I grew to know him well).

I was attempting to evaluate how much he could be handled/touched after he arrived - and he bit me. I ended up a few weeks later taking him on as a foster, and although I worked with him and with a competent local trainer, we felt he would not be safe enough to adopt out. Very few people call a rescue and want a fear biter. By then I was attached, however. I took him permanently - knowing that for the rest of his life, I had a huge responsibility to keep him, and anyone he came in contact with, safe. I had to trust that I could read his body language well enough to know when and why he was ok, or not ok, and what to do. He also had to trust in me a great deal. I had him many years without incident - he even earned his CD title (I was most proud of his 'stand for exam', he scored perfect each time and for a fear biter that is a major accomplishment ). It was a horribly sad day when I had to put him down, after dementia stole his mind from him

I have also rehomed an animal. It was a cat, and she was not doing well with my other cats - they were not getting along, and she was so stressed she was going outside her litterbox. I tried many things, but she was still stressed. I was in an apartment at the time, and could not have her damaging the place - we would have all gotten thrown out, and it would have probably ruined it for future tenants who wanted to have cats. The local humane society took her and was able to find her a home as a single cat (and I told them if she had a time limit and they still hadn't placed her, to call me and I'd keep trying). It was a hard thing to do, but I felt it was the right thing for both of us at the time.

So I've been on both sides of the coin. There are those who would think I was totally wrong in one or both of the above situations (not thinking of anyone here). I know there are rescue groups who would never ever adopt to me because I rehomed a cat 30 years ago (dang, I'm old... lol). Glad not all of them, though.

I think some things, most anyone can agree on.
It's horrible that so many livestock guard dogs are rehomed because of unrealistic expectations or unwillingness to train.
It's horrible that someone would get four livestock guard dogs and shoot 2 that don't work out (that makes me so mad, and sad).
People should educate themselves about the breed and training before getting a livestock guard dog (really, any dog).

So, regarding the third point - how do we do this, to lessen the number of LGD's jumping from home to home?

 

[NH homesteader]

I think everyone in this thread agrees with the original intent of this thread, which is that people should be responsible for their own animals and not "pawn them off" on others. I don't necessarily agree with spending $30,000 on a dog, by which I mean I wouldn't do it. But if that's how you feel is best to take care of your dog then kudos to you. Honestly I just couldn't afford it! There's a post on here about a goat that sold for $16,000, which to me is also absurd!

I think from reading this that we are all animal lovers, and all have different ideas of how that plays out in "real" life.

 

[Southern by choice]

Euthanasia is sometimes needed. Not for dogs that "don't work out"... for severely aggressive animals or animals that have severe health issues. NOT anytime did I suggest this for LGD's that didn't quite cut it as LGD's!

I do get tired of people's selfishness and their own emotional baggage that they bring into an animals life... "they saved it"... yet the animal is so suffering but because the emotional issues of the human they won't humanely put it to rest. Is this everyone that does rescue work? NO, of course not.

When speaking of it being immoral. I am referring to the top on down. Vet business is booming and is a multi- billion dollar industry and it has shifted to a disturbing level. The "pet" industry has somehow shifted what once was vets who cared for animals not vets who just prey on those with financial resourse and guilting those who don't. Just recently on one of the vet magazines was "little dogs bring in big BUCKS!"

You made the decision that you felt comfortable with. I am not and will not condemn you, your money you decide. You see I see it from another perspective have many years of experiencing severe medical in humans. It changes how you see things when you see it up close and firsthand. It does bother me and I am sad that when a little baby had a rare disease and the medical was astronomical, insurance would not pay for experimental treatments and the people would have to... that they lost their home, cars, and poured everything they had in and I saw a go fund me page that nobody would give to. Yet the go fund me page for fido for his cancer treatment was bringing in $ by the thousands.
This is beyond sad. I will always see humans above animals ALWAYS.
You may find that immoral. But I will answer to my God one day. Did I care for my fellow MAN? Did I give them drink when they thirsted, did I clothe hem when they needed it, did I offer food to the hungry? The human condition is what will change all these other issues.
Having said that I do believe we are called to steward all that is entrusted to us. Animals, finances, relationships etc.

CJC you have helped many on the forum, as have I.
I am not your enemy.
I will continue to rehabilitate LGD's. I will continue to try and help those seeking answers to problems with their dogs. And when someone cannot keep their LGD for whatever reason I will not condemn them but find a solution for the dog. The dog deserves it, the dog deserves a home that it can flourish in.

 

[Kaye]

Training is everything. Breed never matters. My LGD is a pit