~Livinwright Farm's kidding thread~ 2 preggers does... hopefully :)

[elevan]

Livinwright Farm - Can't really say for sure...could be tomorrow...could be another week...

Well, I can guarantee you that it won't be another week! This precious little girl has until Wednesday night to get those kids out. If she hasn't had them by Thursday morning, she will be taken to the vet an hour's drive one way from me, and we'll let the vet decide what the best course of action is for her.
I do not want Cali going too far beyond a week past due. With how young and small she is, if the kids get too big, she won't be able to pass them. Better to bring her up for an extraction, than to require an emergency extraction and not be able to get her there in time to save her or the babies.

I can't remember what date Thanksgiving was last year...how many days along do you think she is?

 

[Livinwright Farm]

Well...inbreeding can and does happen and shouldn't be considered a complete disaster...you've got a 50/50 chance of inherited problems being increased...I wouldn't think you'd see 5 legged kids though

Personally if it were me, I'd get a new buck and either wether or sell Marly.

I would wether Marly & Pup, but my Mom wants to keep Marly intact to keep as a stud for people who just want to freshen their doe/does in the fall... she is hoping that we can find someone willing to work a trade(stud service for the kid/kids) I would prefer just to trade him for another buck/buckling.
We are keeping our eyes open for any free to cheap does/doelings and bucks/bucklings(NEED horns intact!)... hint Hint HINT to anyone in NH, VT, MA, or ME that wants to give me a really early b-day present!!

Keep trying! I already told you my requirements, but after all the damage he has caused, can't let him go for free...(seriously, what animal goes through the side of a $*#% barn?!)
My freezer is calling his name (as well as the neighbors offer of a bbq after the he gets his fire permit)

Hey, I told you that I thought your price was a fair one! You are asking only $25 more for him than what we paid for each of our existing herd members.
I understand that some goats are bound for the freezer... I just really need a new gene pool added into my herd.
Also, we are not the only people from New England on here... so I can keep trying!
Hopefully someone out there has a doe/doeling or buck/buckling that isn't breed standard for colors or is a mix breed that would be willing to help me & my little farm out. we don't really care about coloration that much, and as long as the mix of breeds aren't too large(unless it's a doe), we don't really care about that either.

 

[Livinwright Farm]

Livinwright Farm - Can't really say for sure...could be tomorrow...could be another week...

Well, I can guarantee you that it won't be another week! This precious little girl has until Wednesday night to get those kids out. If she hasn't had them by Thursday morning, she will be taken to the vet an hour's drive one way from me, and we'll let the vet decide what the best course of action is for her.
I do not want Cali going too far beyond a week past due. With how young and small she is, if the kids get too big, she won't be able to pass them. Better to bring her up for an extraction, than to require an emergency extraction and not be able to get her there in time to save her or the babies.

I can't remember what date Thanksgiving was last year...how many days along do you think she is?

If Cali settled the last day she was with the boys, and not a day or two later, then Sunday, April 24th marked 150 days... making today Day 157.

 

[chubbydog811]

I would wether Marly & Pup, but my Mom wants to keep Marly intact to keep as a stud for people who just want to freshen their doe/does in the fall... she is hoping that we can find someone willing to work a trade(stud service for the kid/kids) I would prefer just to trade him for another buck/buckling.
We are keeping our eyes open for any free to cheap does/doelings and bucks/bucklings(NEED horns intact!)... hint Hint HINT to anyone in NH, VT, MA, or ME that wants to give me a really early b-day present!!

Keep trying! I already told you my requirements, but after all the damage he has caused, can't let him go for free...(seriously, what animal goes through the side of a $*#% barn?!)
My freezer is calling his name (as well as the neighbors offer of a bbq after the he gets his fire permit)

Hey, I told you that I thought your price was a fair one! You are asking only $25 more for him than what we paid for each of our existing herd members.
I understand that some goats are bound for the freezer... I just really need a new gene pool added into my herd.
Also, we are not the only people from New England on here... so I can keep trying!
Hopefully someone out there has a doe/doeling or buck/buckling that isn't breed standard for colors or is a mix breed that would be willing to help me & my little farm out. we don't really care about coloration that much, and as long as the mix of breeds aren't too large(unless it's a doe), we don't really care about that either.

Yes, yes. I'm just playing (stupid internet for not making it easy to show that lol)! I really hope you find some nice goats for your herd! If I hear of any, I'll send you their info!

 

[Livinwright Farm]

Keep trying! I already told you my requirements, but after all the damage he has caused, can't let him go for free...(seriously, what animal goes through the side of a $*#% barn?!)
My freezer is calling his name (as well as the neighbors offer of a bbq after the he gets his fire permit)

Hey, I told you that I thought your price was a fair one! You are asking only $25 more for him than what we paid for each of our existing herd members.
I understand that some goats are bound for the freezer... I just really need a new gene pool added into my herd.
Also, we are not the only people from New England on here... so I can keep trying!
Hopefully someone out there has a doe/doeling or buck/buckling that isn't breed standard for colors or is a mix breed that would be willing to help me & my little farm out. we don't really care about coloration that much, and as long as the mix of breeds aren't too large(unless it's a doe), we don't really care about that either.

Yes, yes. I'm just playing (stupid internet for not making it easy to show that lol)! I really hope you find some nice goats for your herd! If I hear of any, I'll send you their info!

I know, that is why I played back! Like this:

Me too! And thanks, Sarah! I appreciate it!

 

[SDGsoap&dairy]

Inbreeding is like a toss of the coin...hence why I said 50/50...not actual math sorry. Sometimes you'll get good results and sometimes you'll get something less than desirable, especially when you don't know the full lineage of the goats involved.

Recessive genes are more likely to show up with inbreeding...which is why unless you know quite a bit about the lineage of the 2 that you are breeding you really shouldn't knowingly go there. If you have all the information for let's say 5 or more generations back (10 generations is better) then it's entirely possible to inbreed for specific characteristics.

eta: Linebreeding, however, is a much better method when you need to breed relatives.

I understand the purpose and risks of line breeding/inbreeding, etc... I was just wondering where the 50/50 odds came from.

I don't have the foggiest about actual heritability percentages either, but I disagree that it's as random as a coin toss. That's what linebreeding is all about... increasing the odds of the progeny inheriting desirable characteristics. It's going to increase the heritability of any particular trait the parents possess, dominant or recessive, good or bad, because closely related animals are going to share many more similarities in genotype than unrelated animals.

Inbreeding and Linebreeding are not the same thing (though similar).

I agree with what you've said about linebreeding wholeheartedly. However when you just have a random act of INbreeding like Livinwright Farm had then it really is a toss of the coin.

How can it be random when such closely related animals share a more similar phenotype than less closely related animals? Sure, you're not purposely breeding for certain traits, but brother and sister will share common characteristics all the same. Linebreeding is just INbreeding used responsibly and with a plan.

 

[Livinwright Farm]

I think I understand what Emily is saying about the difference between purposefully line breeding vs what happened here with accidental inbreeding.

Line breeding for specific genetic or character traits isn't random, and gets desired traits passed on with little to no issue.

Accidental inbreeding can be 50/50 as to what traits will be passed on. Good/Bad, dominant/recessive.

Am I understanding you correctly, Emily?

 

[SDGsoap&dairy]

I think I understand what Emily is saying about the difference between purposefully line breeding vs what happened here with accidental inbreeding.

Line breeding for specific genetic or character traits isn't random, and gets desired traits passed on with little to no issue.

Accidental inbreeding can be 50/50 as to what traits will be passed on. Good/Bad, dominant/recessive.

Am I understanding you correctly, Emily?

Wether or not you did it on purpose or on accident doesn't change heritability. That makes no difference. Linebreeding and inbreeding are not different, except that you wouldn't breed brother/sister, son/mother. The genetic principals are exactly the same whether you're working towards a goal or someone accidentally got bred through a fence.

 

[PattySh]

I linebreed my cocker spaniels and I use aunt/nephew breedings often. I have enough years into my lines that we don't have hidden recessives lurking. If you do line breeding can accentuate the bad as well as the good. Depending what the recessive trait is you can multiply it with terrible consequences. Line breeding defines your "type" and is a good method at least with dogs. I haven't gotten that far with my goats. I feel that like breeds like, if you have defects you will definately see them in close breedings.I wouldn't intentionally breed brother and sister but with unknown history breeding is kindoff a crapshoot starting out. Depends on your plans. For us we bought grade goats and are breeding for the milk. I have history on some of them. Obviously we don't want sickly kids or goats with defects. I am breeding for small size, easy to handle docile homestead goats that are easy to milk and milk well. So my plan was to breed to Silas our Alpine/Togg then breed his resulting doeling offspring to a new male. If I was dealing with purebreds I am sure I would attempt to breed to breed specification and entertain linebreeding and if I had pedigrees (like the cockers) I love to dabble in colors, with the cockers I had alot of fun establishing a line of chocolate, nice chocolate by infusing black to strengthen the color and coat texture.

 

[Livinwright Farm]

oh, well...

Anywho...